Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[Rek]

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We've known FT treats its players like this for years, these threads are not new, but people still keep playing there. I, personally, do not play on any site other than pokerstars, nor would I ever

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Could it be:
1. FTP have better detection procedures in place to find cheaters and are prepared to penalise them regardless of the flak they take from people who do not know the facts.
2. PokerStars are not too bothered in detecting cheats and simply take the rake and say "thankyou very much". If anyone is caught they just warn them and we hear no more about it so everyone thinks they are so good.

I seriously am not saying that this is the case but is it a possibility? Could FTP be the "seekers of truth and justice" and all they are truely guilty of is not putting their techniques on to a public forum for future cheats to find their way around their security?

[MicroBob]

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Correct me if im wrong, but the hand histories will prove exactly nothing if the case is that she has(nt) been botting.

I mean, its not like in the hand hist the name pokergirl z suddenly changes to pokergirl's bot.

I would imagine the key data is found in her processes list and the timing of actions - something i doubt the site can or will release and i cant really blame them.

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In their letter to pokergirl z, FT said "We can tell you that during the course of the investigation we reviewed and assessed detailed hand histories and playing patterns to come to our final decision." So obviously FT feels there was evidence in the hand histories. And they should show us if she played 52 hours straight without a break, did she always fold certain hands, etc. Others please comment on this.

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their 'detailed hand histories' might be different than the kinds of HH's they send out to the players.
They could have access to the exact timing of each action.
If she was takng exactly 1.2 seconds for each pre-flop decision for example then they may start to conclude that that is somewhat bot-like.
Something like that anyway.
FT's 'detailed HH's' would have every single little thing on them.

I still think it's worth compiling the public HH's anyway since FT found something in their own HH's which they thought was significant.

[MicroBob]

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[ QUOTE ]
We've known FT treats its players like this for years, these threads are not new, but people still keep playing there. I, personally, do not play on any site other than pokerstars, nor would I ever

[/ QUOTE ]
Could it be:
1. FTP have better detection procedures in place to find cheaters and are prepared to penalise them regardless of the flak they take from people who do not know the facts.
2. PokerStars are not too bothered in detecting cheats and simply take the rake and say "thankyou very much". If anyone is caught they just warn them and we hear no more about it so everyone thinks they are so good.

I seriously am not saying that this is the case but is it a possibility? Could FTP be the "seekers of truth and justice" and all they are truely guilty of is not putting their techniques on to a public forum for future cheats to find their way around their security?

[/ QUOTE ]


Rek - Yes, that is possible and has occured to me as well.
I truly think that Stars is just better at catching the bots and in doing so more quickly and in a more professional way.

There was a situation last year where a player here had his mom accused of being a bot on Stars playing micro-stakes. Since it was his own mom he knew that Stars had stumbled on a funny false-positive. But Stars insisted that the account was a bot via the timing of the actions, etc.
They were also kind of rude about how certain they were of the guilt of that player.

But the masses arose at 2+2 and Stars eventually corrected their actions. It was still a pretty stressful time I think for them even though they didn't have $47k on the line.

The situation involved poster TeddyFBI and his mom. Look up TeddyFBI's Mom in the archives for more of that zanyness.

Stars took much quicker actions and gave some kind of insight as to how they catch bots even in their rudeness to Teddy FBI's mom and it very much seems they move and communicate much faster than FT.

[jman220]

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[ QUOTE ]
We've known FT treats its players like this for years, these threads are not new, but people still keep playing there. I, personally, do not play on any site other than pokerstars, nor would I ever

[/ QUOTE ]
Could it be:
1. FTP have better detection procedures in place to find cheaters and are prepared to penalise them regardless of the flak they take from people who do not know the facts.
2. PokerStars are not too bothered in detecting cheats and simply take the rake and say "thankyou very much". If anyone is caught they just warn them and we hear no more about it so everyone thinks they are so good.

I seriously am not saying that this is the case but is it a possibility? Could FTP be the "seekers of truth and justice" and all they are truely guilty of is not putting their techniques on to a public forum for future cheats to find their way around their security?

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It doesn't matter if its one or two, the process by which Full Tilt Poker seizes funds, with NO Notice to the player of what they're even accused of, no evidence, no oversight, no appeals process, and a history of the occasional false positive, should be absolutely unacceptable to any sane player.

[Johny Poker]

If I was pokergirl, and then continued to stonewall, I would haul their azz into a california court. Let's see them tell a judge they are not gonna release any evidence. Or not show up. Can you say default judgment.

[MicroBob]

I think you might overestimate how easy something like a California court hearing on this matter would be.
FT isn't in the U.S. I don't know how possible it is but it doesn't seem terribly realistic.

Hopefully her lawyer may have an idea or two.

[pygmyhipo]

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How anyone can now leave large sums of money on that site is beyond me.

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The trouble is that $47k isn't much if you play $100-$200 HU like pokergirl z did. That's only 230bb. If you play a 5 hour session (about 1000 hands), your stdev is about 75bb. So a -2 sigma session is -150 bb, or maybe -140 bb for a winning player. Likewise, a good winning session will be +150 or +160 bb.

At lower limits, you could simply cash out after each winning session, since it's so easy to transfer money back in after a bad streak. But at stakes like 100-200, it is a lot harder to deposit a fresh 100 bb, and generally takes a few days at least. During that time you are out of action.

It puts high stakes players in a tough spot: either trust the site with a few hundred bb, or play somewhere else.

-pyg

[KamiKatze]

Even if pokergirl z cheated, which i dont believe...

FT's rep getting rapêd all over the place < 47k $.


[x] Unfreeze the mobniez.

[imozyslow]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if pokergirl z cheated, which i dont believe...

FT's rep getting rapêd all over the place < 47k $.


[x] Unfreeze the mobniez.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes FT has gone to great lengths to maintain their polished reputation in the past. i can't believe they handled this so poorly.

[excession]

Maybe they needed to get hold a a copy of the relevant HU bot and set it up to play duplicates of 10k of SS's hands to compare how it would play them vs how SS actually played them?

That could easily take weeks...

We simply don't know - and have to wait to see what they send to Mike and what he thinks of it..