Unorthodox

[baronzeus]

my grin was more out of silliness, i think this hand is pretty disgusting all around. naioeuyo is pretty bad and will never fold a pair or a draw and may not even fold 2 overs on the turn. alehan is calling the turn probably 95%.

so now you've got to bet the river and hope alehan is on a draw and naioeyo has nothing or 2 overs that he peeled with.


all this about "clearing up ace outs" you do realize we likely have the strongest ace here?

[Schneids]

Ok lets rewind a little:

Alehan raised UTG, he's somewhat aggressive. Valesco knows this, and is aggressive too, and 3-bet him. My AQ fares good against both their ranges. IMO the biggest wild card in the hand is the SB, as he's somewhat loose but calling 3-cold still has to mean something.

So on this relatively _good_ looking flop, I decide to bet it. Why?
1) I might very well have the best hand.
2) From a hand reading perspective, to Alehan and Valesco it will look a lot like I have a pocket pair. Also, they may or may not know this, but I play flopped sets this way a lot too (obv it'd be a boat in this instance). Anyway, my play looks a lot like a pocket pair to them, I would think.
3) Because of #2, and because they are both aware folding isn't a strong suit of mine, my flop bet should elicit very honest postflop reactions from both of them and make my own hand reading very simple.

Once there's two calls and a checkraise back to me, the 3-bet becomes mandatory IMO. Both to further _represent_ that pocketpair that so desperately wants overcards to fold, and also, because of the legit possibility the somewhat unknown SB might be checkraising the flop with a flush draw.


There becomes two Q's to the hand:

1) Should the flop be bet. On a range of seldom, sometimes, often, always, never; where is the appropriate marker?

2) Once Alehan calls my 3-bet, what becomes the best turn/river plan? There's the off-chance I'm wrong and he's slowplaying something huge, but, it's much more likely he has a club draw based on his preflop/flop play. So then, does that make it a two-street must bet? If they both call on the turn, is the river give-up time?

[PokerBot123]

1) Flop should be bet often imo, for several reasons.
2) Without knowing the players I'm gonna say turn is most likely bet-fold to sb's raise and bet-call to alehan's raise, check-fold river.

Depends a lot on alehan inclination to put in more action on the turn I guess. Maybe you could even bet-3bet, now there's a spew :P

[Mig]

1) I believe you should bet the flop with weak made hands to get, like you said, more str8 forward flop play. If I had 77 here I would gladly bet into the raiser to get the UTG raiser to fold his overs and the SB fold to the raiser flop raise.

I don't like leading with AQo here even if everyone is a good hand reader because of how drawy the board is and how many people are in the pot. The fact that there is 3 other people in the pot make it pretty likely someone has AQ/AK or a pocket pair in the hole and I believe you'll get called light here because of the flush draw possibility and how big the pot is/will be.

[The Funky Llama]

Schneids,

If alehan and valesco are aggressive and capable hand readers who will react honestly postflop, why would you bet the flop with a pocket pair?

[emerson]

[ QUOTE ]
1) I believe you should bet the flop with weak made hands to get, like you said, more str8 forward flop play. If I had 77 here I would gladly bet into the raiser to get the UTG raiser to fold his overs and the SB fold to the raiser flop raise.

I don't like leading with AQo here even if everyone is a good hand reader because of how drawy the board is and how many people are in the pot. The fact that there is 3 other people in the pot make it pretty likely someone has AQ/AK or a pocket pair in the hole and I believe you'll get called light here because of the flush draw possibility and how big the pot is/will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you all the way.