OK lets get this ball rolling (AP)

[Fatal Fog]

You guys are saying that the cheating only happened after the latest absolute patch.

You are also saying that one of the biggest pieces of evidence that GrayCat cheats in LHE is the fact that he never calls the river.

In my hands, which occurred before the patch, he almost never calls the river.

So either he was cheating before the updates, he doesn't cheat at all, or his cheating is not related to him never calling the river.

It seems that when counter evidence is presented, a lot of people are making after-the-fact statements like "oh, he was only cheating during so and so time period."

[baronzeus]

well his river AF rose from 2.3 in my pre-update hands to 18 in my post update hands, thats pretty interesting in and of itself

[baronzeus]

also his pre-update vpip i have is 42 and his post update vpip is around 70

[Fatal Fog]

how many hands are your samples?

[BradL]

I could definitely see how a player such as graycat could loosen up considerably when running hot. additionally i could see how he could lag it up considerably on the river feeling "invincible." what i cant see is how graycat, steamroller, and doubledrag can have so many similarities, play both limit and no limit in such a questionable way, and all be huge winners with stats previously though unachievable.

-brad

[BradL]

ok i just reviewed a few graycat sessions from before the "update" and i will say that he plays a similar style but makes many more mistakes and NEVER check folds before the river. the biggest difference i see in his play is his uncanny ability to check fold the flop and turn post "update" when his opponent hits. this could as i originally thought just be a case of him running at his top .1% but it still doesn't explain all the doubledrag/steamroller nonsense.

[baronzeus]

graycat was running very well in my sample pre-updaet as well. but the difference was he was playing much much differently. much more like a player would play if he had to worry about his opponents have him beat or if he had to worry about river bluffing at all

[Fatal Fog]

Brad,

He check/folded before the river several times in my pre-update sample.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are saying that the cheating only happened after the latest absolute patch.

You are also saying that one of the biggest pieces of evidence that GrayCat cheats in LHE is the fact that he never calls the river.

In my hands, which occurred before the patch, he almost never calls the river.

So either he was cheating before the updates, he doesn't cheat at all, or his cheating is not related to him never calling the river.

It seems that when counter evidence is presented, a lot of people are making after-the-fact statements like "oh, he was only cheating during so and so time period."

[/ QUOTE ]

Your sample shows a river AF of 4.6, that is way different than the post updates samples showing him at 10+ and in some cases infinite (never called on the river in that sample).

[Abbaddabba]

stretches sample from april shows a river AF of 2.

post patch he runs with a river AF near infinite.

in some of the pre-patch samples he runs with a high river AF, but not nearly as high in the post-patch. this could be due to the pre-patch samples being a mix of rigged hands and non-rigged hands.

in your pre-patch sample, how large a range of dates are used? can you isolate between certain dates to see if there is a drastic difference between sessions?