River chop?

[Captain R]

Garden City 20-40:

UTG, fairly weak-tight player open-raises. Super-fishy lady calls, I 3-bet A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] OTB, all fold and UTG/fish call.

Flop is K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I can tell UTG has a good piece of this, he checks, fish bets. I just call because I don't have a good feeling about UTG and I don't understand fishy lady well enough to know what she's donking. UTG raises, fish/me call.

Turn is 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG bets confidently, fish calls, I call.

River T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG checks, fish checks.

Easy bet? I know if UTG calls I have at best a chop.

[Maliant]

eh if the weak tight player will auto-muck when u bet the 4 heart board and u can get out a 2-pair / set then yes.

[ackid]

Raise flop. Hand might play differently from there.

But as played raise turn and bet river.

I think were playing ak way to way too passive, given you reads and may be missing out on some value in this hand.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
eh if the weak tight player will auto-muck when u bet the 4 heart board...

[/ QUOTE ]

Try again.

[mongidig]

Logically speaking, if the UTG had a monster like KK or QQ which since he is weak, may not have capped preflop he should have just bet the flop. Since he went for the check-raise it looks like he is trying to shut out the fish probably with a hand like AK.

He probably wouldn't raise with KQ preflop or 55 being weak tight. You would think AA would have capped but you never know.

This river probably scared him into checking since a straight and a backdoor flush just hit. You have also underrepresented your hand so the UTG has to wonder what you have been just calling with. If he just has AK he may also fear that you hit a set on him since you three bet preflop and three big cards are on the board.

As played, and given your reads, I would just check. Weak and passive players have a way of making you believe your ahead and then they turn over a monster and you just scratch your head.

[Scary_Tiger]

Super easy value bet.

[threeonefour]

if UTG was infact weak tight you beat almost nothing.

weak tights raise AK AA KK QQ and JJ utg, mayyyybe AQ but you can get rid of that based on your read of him throughout the hand. (EDIT: i just notice you said 'fairly' weak tight and not weak tight, so depending on what that means, this advice can be taken with a grain of salt.)

so the only point in betting appears to chop the overcall from the fish.

this implies that betting is not profitable since the fish will only overcall with a worse hand infrequently (well maybe not depending on how fishy), and when she does you only profit 1 sb. so you infrequently gain 1 sb, but i think you will more frequently lose 1 BB to AA (from weak tight) or the fish having some crazy 2 pair.


it seems kind of close, but i would lean towards a check if you have enough information about the involved players to be confident in your reads. if your reads are only based on a couple hands, a value bet may be in order.

FWIW, i definitely would have raised the flop, i think its actually a pretty big mistake.


final edit: UTG's hand looks A LOT like AK, given that he is weak tight. its hard to imagine much else. value betting is really thin at best if my read is correct. people make out of character decisions a fair amount though.

[Lord_Strife]

I like betting here because of the possibility of chopping fishes money

[Captain R]

UTG is probably only raising AJ/KQ+ and TT+ preflop UTG. Maybe 99. He also isn't capping AK out of position, so this is a very real possibility for his hand.

I put him on QQ when the flop hit by his reaction, and his check-raise sort of confirmed that. He might c/r AK on the flop, that's probably the worst hand he c/r's with and even that he is weak enough to possibly only call with.

So I put him on a hand that beats me, but when he checked the river this looked an awful lot like AK to me. I bet because I figured we could chop fish's money, so I'm putting in 1 BB to try to win 0.5 BB.

[Captain R]

Results:
<font color="white">I bet the river and he called. UTG had KQo. </font>