AK is crappy multi-way all-in hand... - Page 3

Sherman · #21 07-24-2007, 12:55 PM

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What's the difference?

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Not much, only with the monte carlo is just runs a whole bunch of simulations and records teh results. You can stop it whenever you want. For when every possible combination is too much.

Monte carlo is often more accurate in those situations becaus I think it runs the full combinations in a particular order. So if you stop the combination method after like 1 million hands, you aren't sure which ones you are getting. With the monte carlo, they are randomly selected and simulated.

At least I think.

BarryLyndon · #22 07-24-2007, 01:01 PM

OH GOD, FOR THE LOVE OF HUMANITY, STOP WITH THE AK THEORY FOLD POSTS!!! UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH. JUST...UGGGGGGH.

When I have AK, which hasn't happened a whole hell of a [censored] lot in the past month, I'm thinking: "how am I going to get my money in in good sized pots for FE preflop," or "how much am I going to RR," or "am I deep enough (read: never in online tournaments) to make a call here and play; or "WTF am I going to do against a 4-bet." I'm not thinking about how crappy this hand is multi-way and whether I'm going to make the umpteenth post this month about what folding AK because it may/may not have burnt me in a tournament last night. [censored].

Also, before posting your [censored] theory "Fold AK" posts (and I say this to help, please, I really do mean it, as violent as I sound, I do it with love), please read the 2+2 anthologies. Players who are better than you or I have posted on this subject; Woodguy made a nice post about small edges. If anything, read that post and try to counterargue it with a lot of thought; don't just post that you think AK is crappy in multi-way pots so you can get it in some person's head who is trying to improve and screw him up later on tonight.

Barry

hamnegger · #23 07-24-2007, 01:09 PM

i think you are forgetting the overlay of blinds and antes. plus the %of time ur against no pair is definitely about 15-20%. the % against kk aa is about 5%. its a positive ev play and a good way to amass alot of chips

footnbaseball · #24 07-24-2007, 01:44 PM

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don't just post that you think AK is crappy in multi-way pots so you can get it in some person's head who is trying to improve and screw him up later on tonight.

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I'm gonna fold AK preflop and send you the HH now, just to piss you off [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

MJBuddy · #25 07-24-2007, 01:51 PM

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don't just post that you think AK is crappy in multi-way pots so you can get it in some person's head who is trying to improve and screw him up later on tonight.

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I'm gonna fold AK preflop and send you the HH now, just to piss you off [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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With the mood he's been in the last few days, you'll totally be in for a letter bomb at that point.

Cornell Fiji · #26 07-24-2007, 02:27 PM

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i think you are forgetting the overlay of blinds and antes.

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It should not have taken so long for someone to mention this.

The OP was talking about AK in the late stages of a turbo and in these cases the overlay is HUGE.

Also, in the late stages of a turbo everyone will have a low M so the first person's shoving range should be enormous and therefore the second person's isolation range should be very wide too.

AK usually has 38%-40% equity in a pot where they only need 25%-30% for a call to be correct.

This is an enormous edge.

When the OP was plugging in AK v 55 v AQ he was severely missing the points posted above and it is a shame that it took everyone so long to realize this.

dave6 · #27 07-24-2007, 03:30 PM

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i think you are forgetting the overlay of blinds and antes. plus the %of time ur against no pair is definitely about 15-20%. the % against kk aa is about 5%. its a positive ev play and a good way to amass alot of chips

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Yes, this is the point that people above you were missing.

Example: You have 10,000 chips and get into a 3 way allin with two people that have you covered. None of the 3 allin players is in the blinds. Blinds are 1000/2000 ante 100.

There will be 10000+10000+10000+3900 = 33900 chips in the main pot. You contributed 10000 of them, so you only need 29.5% equity for this to be profitable. If you actually have 36% equity you have a significant edge, especially this far into a turbo.

greenstack · #28 07-24-2007, 07:25 PM

This thread comes just in time for me. My game has clearly improved the last few months since reading and beginning to understand how aggression and pushing on edges can help me become a better player.

Last night I was on a similar OP situation and... I pushed, it was just too good to let it go. So, if I made a donk move please tell.

$2.20/1545 players, 380 remains, ITM from 297. Big stacks are abusing the table and the game has turned a little wild. I limped bc I was pretty sure a raise was coming and wanted to rrai.

I'm including results this time, just to illustrate some possible ranges as the thread talks about that.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO (t3210)
Button (t4625)
SB (t8300)
BB (t2300)
Hero (t2570)
UTG+1 (t2187)
MP1 (t11910)
MP2 (t6720)
MP3 (t6150)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls t200, 1 fold, MP1 calls t200, 2 folds, CO raises to t3210, 1 fold, SB calls t3110, 1 fold, Hero calls t2370 (All-In), MP1 folds.

Flop: (t9390) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t9390) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t9390) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t9390

Results in white below: 
SB has 4c Ac (flush, ace high).
Hero has Ks As (high card, ace).
CO has Kc Ad (flush, king high).
Outcome: SB wins t9390.