Live AQo short-handed 40/80

[Garland]

Location: Garden City in San Jose, CA
Stakes: $40/$80, 4 bet cap.
Players: Loose aggressive. 5 or 6-handed. Only ok game with one really weak spot. This lineup is much worse than when I initially joined several hours ago ** or ** 1/2 of 5 game.

Principal Player:
SB – Late 20’s early 30’s white guy, who is aggressive and decent. I’d say he leans just a bit towards the too aggressive side. He definitely knows how to adjust to short-handed standards. Definitely will check-raise top pair on the flop. He’s come into the game with someone who I suspect might be elena_elphie.

I’m a bit unsure of the suits now, but here’s a fair account of what’s happened:

Preflop action: (1.5 small bets) I raise UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB calls, all else fold.

Flop action: (5 small bets, 2 players): A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB checks, I bet, SB check-raises.

Turn action: (4.5 big bets, 2 players): 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] SB bets, I’m cleaning the bet stacks I’ve already made because I’ve got some 5’s, stuck among the standard 10’s (all the chips are easy mistaken for one another) then I raise. Without missing a beat, SB 3-bets with what I detect is a great show of strength, and then I fold.

Yes? No?

Garland

[sharpie]

I don't like it, too many combo draws and TP+FD type hands, and if he's decent I'd expect him to 3 bet most pocket pairs that hit sets PF, and not play many hands that make 2 pair OOP against an UTG raise.

[admiralfluff]

I 3bet this flop, but I understand that is probably a matter of style.

The problem is he will play exactly like this (including the confident show of strength) with: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], x [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], or T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Combined with some small (but ever-present) chance of spew, and your average of probably 5 outs if behind, and I don't think you can really fold here.

Against a solid (maybe too) aggressive player, raise-folding the turn with TPGK on a drawy board HU is pretty much never an option.

[jfk]

Given your read and what I saw of the game, I think you're going to have to call down unless you were very sure than an out of position three bet meant his range was very narrow.

I agree that a preflop three bet would've been a more standard line with the nature of the draw heavy board although raising a safe card on the turn is reasonable too.

Being that its a 6 1/4 to 1 decision (if my math is right) I think you're good often enough here to call down (and hopefully improve on the river).

For the sake of discussion, what hand(s) did you think he held?

Also, that wasn't elena_elphie.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
For the sake of discussion, what hand(s) did you think he held?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought he had to have "minimum AK" and not a draw. I thought I was most likely drawing to 3 outs or less unless he happened to have smaller two pair with no A, which doesn't jive because it's an expensive call preflop from the SB. I was fully expecting him to call down any A unless he was extremely strong. Given how he played other hands later on, I'm not terribly upset with how I played this hand.

Yes 3-betting the flop is standard. Punishing someone who has the penchant to get somewhat out of line is more fun.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, that wasn't elena_elphie.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take it you've played with her? I saw her pics on her journal, and she had glasses with somewhat the body shape and played fairly well, so I thought it might have been her.

Thanks for your thoughts, John.

Garland

[jfk]

[ QUOTE ]


I thought he had to have "minimum AK" and not a draw. I thought I was most likely drawing to 3 outs or less unless he happened to have smaller two pair with no A, which doesn't jive because it's an expensive call preflop from the SB. I was fully expecting him to call down any A unless he was extremely strong. Given how he played other hands later on, I'm not terribly upset with how I played this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've not played with that guy but wouldn't have put him as the type to play AK that way. I think you get 3 bet preflop if he holds AK. My sense is that Ax suited is more likely and he either hit two pair or he's jamming his top pair and flush draw.

Maybe 6 1/4 to 1 isn't the right price to call down but you're not far off.

[ QUOTE ]
I take it you've played with her? I saw her pics on her journal, and she had glasses with somewhat the body shape and played fairly well, so I thought it might have been her.

[/ QUOTE ]

She's taller and a better player than the woman to your right (who is solid). From what I've gathered, elena_elphie is one of the more formidable players in that game. I'd go so far as to say that I can't think of a better player in the 20.

[Heisenb3rg]

It is a pretty serious mistake to fold this turn against someone you call "young player who leans a little on the TOO agressive side"

Way too many 15 out draws here that someone of that description would 3-bet..

[Smarty]

I'm not too happy, but I'm also not folding.

[geormiet]

I'll never not go to showdown with this hand and that board.

This is a really bad time to lay down imo, the board is EXREMELY drawy. I mean, i think JTh is more likely than a set.

[Garland]

haven't you all had that moment at the table where the opponent exudes extreme and unmistakable strength? In my particular case, my opponent was showing all the symptoms that I was unmistakably crushed by 2 pair or better on the turn, not a draw with only one card to come. Heavy breathing, veins protruding from forehead, chips in hand ready to 5 bet. Bad ominous feeling. If my read is right, I believe folding is definitely correct.

And to jfk, when I said "minimum AK", I didn't really mean that he probably had AK, which he would easily 3-bet (but could just call for deception), I meant that is the minimum hand I felt he had on the turn.

Probably not a fold I make online, but I guess I had a pretty bad vibe coming from him saying to me "don't do it, Garland, you'll regret it".

I don't know...I guess you had to be there.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Garland