10/180 FT - 3 way with one player all in, straight draw

[JammyDodga]

PokerStars Game #11364476316: Tournament #57645053, $10+$1 Hold'em No
Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2007/08/07 - 18:22:47 (ET)
Table '57645053 7' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: bigchongs79 (3413 in chips)
Seat 3: JHI24 (13592 in chips)
Seat 4: Geronimomo (19033 in chips)
Seat 5: dragsss55555 (22017 in chips)
Seat 7: JimmyDodger (13583 in chips)
Seat 9: dfiler (25346 in chips)
bigchongs79: posts the ante 75
JHI24: posts the ante 75
Geronimomo: posts the ante 75
dragsss55555: posts the ante 75
JimmyDodger: posts the ante 75
dfiler: posts the ante 75
dragsss55555: posts small blind 400
JimmyDodger: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to JimmyDodger [9h Th]
dfiler: folds
bigchongs79: raises 2538 to 3338 and is all-in
JHI24: calls 3338
Geronimomo: folds
dragsss55555: folds
JimmyDodger: calls 2538
*** FLOP *** [8s Kd 7h]
JimmyDodger: checks
JHI24: bets 3200
JimmyDodger: calls 3200
*** TURN *** [8s Kd 7h] [Qs]
JimmyDodger: checks
JHI24: bets 6979 and is all-in
JimmyDodger has timed out
JimmyDodger: folds
JimmyDodger is sitting out

Really sorry, but cant get the converter to do the blinds and bet sizes, so figured it was beter to have all the info messy than miss stuff.

Anyways...

With most hands I can normally look back on them and figure out how I should have played, but this one I’m pretty stumped.

Pre-flop, I think the call is fine based on pots odds, the chance to eliminate a player and the chance that with one player all in, there’s a good chance we would be checking it down and I could see all 5 cards.

When he bets the flop, I’m pretty sure he must have a pretty good hand. I’d say his range here is AK, AA, or trips, so if I hit my straight I’m almost certainly going to win, but the 9 and the 10 aren’t outs.

Flop I’ve clearly more than the odds to at least call even if I just see the turn, since if I do hit, my hand will be disguised and against his range I should have no problem getting it all in on the turn or river.

The turn I’m not so sure, do the pot odds make it a clear call? Although I’ve got great odds, I don’t really want to risk elimination on a 4-1 long shot.
I actually timed out on the turn while I was trying to decide whether to call or not, and I still cant decide what would be right.

How’s my line, would you have played any streets differently? I normally like to play my draws aggressively, but I’m 100% sure I have no fold equity here.

[Soulman]

Yeah, I pretty much disagree with everything here.

PF: unless cold caller is a huge donkey/passive station, he has a really good hand here. Fold. You *may* push if you think he's the type of passive donk that actually folds after putting in 1/3 of his stack and getting 2:1 odds.

Flop: as played, I don't really think you can ask for a better flop. The only reason to call PF is to get it in on a fine-looking drawy flop since you think villain's hand range is wide, so get it in. As played, you're almost getting straight odds to call and will probably get it in ~100% if you hit, so fine, call.

Turn: well, I would never be here but whatever. Fold, since you don't have odds. You're getting 2.5:1 and need 5:1, so no, you don't have odds.


So yeah, not a fan at all.

[JammyDodga]

Actually on the turn i've got 3.5 to 1,
450 antes,
400 SB
3300 * 3 pre-flop bet
6400 on flop
+ his bet of 7k
= 24k or so

But you are right I guess, I didn't have the odds to call the turn bet.

Are you really saying I should push this flop as played? He's betting into a pretty big, dry pot on a final table, he has to be very sure he's winning to do this and is never going to fold.

Maybe you are right about pre-flop, but it only costs me 2.5 k to play and theres 8k already in there. Those are pretty good odds to be passing up and I do think 9/10 times this is checked down to the river.

<font color="red"> EDIT ---- Ah ok, your saying I should be pushing first on the flop, rather than going over the top... hmm, maybe, only problem is that if he does fold all I win is a draw against the short stack who went all in, and although his range is wide, he's almost certainly ahead of me right now.

In hindsight I guess this is an argument for folding in the first place as a drawing hand like this is most powerful when semi-bluffing draws, and the fact one guy is already all in precludes this...
</font>

[Soulman]

Yeah I meant open push the flop. If you don't want to gamble some, don't call PF - this is about as good a flop as you can hope for.

The problem with thinking it'll get checked down to the river is that flops that hit you will look dangerous to your opponent, and he's likely to bet at it.