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#1
11-07-2007, 06:16 PM
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Minimum hand to call.
1/2, no reads.
HJ opens you defend BB. Flop 975 2 tone. You ck call. Turn Ace flush. You c/r and call a 3 bet. River Ace. You check and he bets. What are you calling with here? 
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#2
11-07-2007, 06:55 PM
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Re: Minimum hand to call.
Not saying I would ever get there this way but at that price on that board I'm calling any pair.
-DeathDonkey
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#3
11-07-2007, 06:57 PM
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Re: Minimum hand to call.
any ace obv.
the only tough decision is if i have 97s but i would never wait for the turn to cr... any other hand i'd play like this would be a semibluff that missed and i'd have to fold. unless i decided not to cap the turn with a set or 2 pair that just filled, in which case i would CR...but you asked what i call with.
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#4
11-08-2007, 10:15 PM
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Re: Minimum hand to call.
[ QUOTE ]
Not saying I would ever get there this way but at that price on that board I'm calling any pair. -DeathDonkey [/ QUOTE ] This is my thought exactly. Pretty sure i call my whole range based on how the hand played out. Pretty much any hand i c/r on the turn here vs. unknown i call the river with.
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#5
11-08-2007, 11:02 PM
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Re: Minimum hand to call.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Not saying I would ever get there this way but at that price on that board I'm calling any pair. -DeathDonkey [/ QUOTE ] This is my thought exactly. Pretty sure i call my whole range based on how the hand played out. Pretty much any hand i c/r on the turn here vs. unknown i call the river with. [/ QUOTE ] Well, be careful here, because I certainly am not CRing the turn with any pair ever, so I think you might be changing the question to "what hands would you play this way". I'm saying if I magically was just observing this hand, then I took over for Hero and looked down at pocket deuces on the river, I would call. Villain's range should be like {monster, counterfeited hand that probably shouldn't bet, bluff that he spewed a semibluff with on the turn}. So I'd call and probably get my DeucesCracked [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] -DeathDonkey
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#6
11-09-2007, 12:02 AM
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Re: Minimum hand to call.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Not saying I would ever get there this way but at that price on that board I'm calling any pair. -DeathDonkey [/ QUOTE ] This is my thought exactly. Pretty sure i call my whole range based on how the hand played out. Pretty much any hand i c/r on the turn here vs. unknown i call the river with. [/ QUOTE ] Well, be careful here, because I certainly am not CRing the turn with any pair ever, so I think you might be changing the question to "what hands would you play this way". I'm saying if I magically was just observing this hand, then I took over for Hero and looked down at pocket deuces on the river, I would call. Villain's range should be like {monster, counterfeited hand that probably shouldn't bet, bluff that he spewed a semibluff with on the turn}. So I'd call and probably get my DeucesCracked [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] -DeathDonkey [/ QUOTE ] What bluffing hand does he have here? Calling with 22 seems really bad to me....
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#7
11-09-2007, 01:53 AM
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Re: Minimum hand to call.
8x, 6x, any two broadway with a diamond. Random air.
-DeathDonkey
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#8
11-09-2007, 03:04 AM
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Re: Minimum hand to call.
[ QUOTE ]
8x, 6x, any two broadway with a diamond. Random air. -DeathDonkey [/ QUOTE ] So basically an unknown at 1/2 is a maniac? I know you have played those games more than I have, and the aggression certainly gets out of control, but I still don't agree.
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#9
11-09-2007, 12:22 PM
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Re: Minimum hand to call.
He can have a lot more than that, but many of the hands would check behind on the river IMO. Like if he has 9x there, he is going to think to himself "wow a lot of bets have gone in this pot, I definitely could have scared a better hand into just check/calling me". You think LAGs don't 3 bet the turn with the hands I mention ever? I mean the ace is like the "everything has changed" card and a lot of crazy things happen on ace high boards.
Look how big the pot is, he only has to have one of the hands I mention a pretty small percentage of the time to justify a call. I feel like we can eliminate a lot of thin value bets from his range and when a guy's range is polarized to "monster" and "bluff" and the pot has that many bets in it, it doesn't need to be "bluff" very often. -DeathDonkey
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#10
11-09-2007, 02:28 PM
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Re: Minimum hand to call.
[ QUOTE ]
You think LAGs don't 3 bet the turn with the hands I mention ever? [/ QUOTE ] I didn't say ever. But neither is it a standard play. That is, you need to discount the hands you mentioned (I don't know by exactly how much) after he 3bets the turn. When you call that 3b and essentially announce you are seeing a showdown unless you happen to have turned a flush draw, and he bets the river anyway, you have to discount them even more. I guess I just think it would be a really stupid bluff on his part, and a pretty stupid 3b semi bluff to begin with. Again, I'm not sure you are wrong, but I am still not convinced. Here is maybe a more interesting question: Let's say hero had flopped a pair. Do you think c/raising that turn is a good play? If so, is your line c/r calldown, and are you expecting a good chunk of your equity to be from the times he 3b bluffs? Or, given the same opponent, do you think c/c c/c has merit? Or maybe some other combination, like c/c b/f or c/c b/c? I think your answers to these questions may shed more light on why our opinions differ about the original question.
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