Triple Barrels

[jk3a]

Villian in this hand is TNinja. I have him at like 21/15/1 through about 100 hands. We played HU for a little bit and I kind of ran over him, but his play seems generally solid so far. Raises preflop to 4x, so might be 2+2. I realize this first hand isn't technically a triple barrel, but I thought it would fit well with the other hand.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
3 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Button: $107.65
SB: $266.85
Hero: $463.85

Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $8</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($16, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $12</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($40, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $32</font>, SB calls.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($104, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $78</font>, SB...


Villian in this hand is Bunkbeds. I've got him at like 15/11/2 through a short sample. He's at a couple of my tables and seems very solid so far. We haven't played much together so my image should be pretty neutral.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $311.25
UTG+1: $99.75
CO: $212.55
Button: $162.35
SB: $202.50
BB: $200

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $7</font>, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($22, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $16</font>, CO calls, BB folds.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($54, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $40</font>, CO calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($134, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $110</font>, CO...
Final pot: $134

[terp]

i'm not really a fan of either - not that these can't work, but:

1) this flop doesn't present potential for many scare cards to peel off given your flop call - almost anything that doesn't make a straight is going to be a blankish card. a one street float isn't terrible but a river bet is pretty bad unless he's super weak tight. if he folded the river it was probably because his straight draw missed

2) again this can work but i never triple barrel OOP. it's simply too exploitable and you never get information from them via their repeated checks. also, like the first one, this flop just doesn't present too many potential scare cards. you got got one of the better turn cards and he calls again...

[ajmargarine]

Well, at least when you spew, you spew as the aggressor. Which has more EV than spewing making loose calls, which I've been doing lately.

[notTHATjonmayer]

I don't think I love either one. In #1, I think people are more heroic in BvB situations. He also could be taking this line w/ AA/KK and be snap-calling.

On #2, you're OOP, which sucks, and we know he didn't call on the flop w/ a draw. I think we see sets a lot, even w/ the opponent still to act on the flop, though I guess you might push him off a 10.

As for the point that scare cards aren't gonna peel off on the turn on hand #1- i sometimes think this is a better situation to triple barrel. On a drawy board, people sometimes can convince themselves you missed your draw and pick off a bluff. On a really dry board, people generally won't put you on complete air, and can find a fold. Flawed thinking?

[Pokey]

There really isn't any way to evaluate these triple-barrels. You're making a move based 100% on folding equity, and that requires more specific reads than you are giving us here. A couple general thoughts:

1. These boards are very dry, so for a villain to call a turn bet he'd have to have something. Once the turn bluff fails, there's very little benefit in bluffing a river. Now, if the boards had been draw-heavy and the river bricked, or if the boards had been dry and the river was a profound scare card, your bluffs would carry more weight.

2. Your table image is critically important to evaluating the likelihood of your success. How tight are you running? How aggressive? How many failed bluffs have you shown down? How many winners have you shown down? How many hands have you won without a showdown? In the last two orbits, how have you been behaving and how does the table view you?

I'd make these sorts of plays every once in a while if my table image was right and if my opponents were tight enough to find a fold, but triple-barreling will never be my "default line" because I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] money.

[GambleAllNight]

i don't like the river betin the second one...up until then it looks good...no third barrell there imo. did he call you?

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, at least when you spew, you spew as the aggressor. Which has more EV than spewing making loose calls, which I've been doing lately.

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer a nice balance of spew bluffs and spew calls

though every 10k hands or so, it seems both are working perfectly and I run really good then

[Hince]

I usually check the folded to turn bet, flop bet, and cbet before making these plays as a way of estimating fold equity.

Assuming those numbers looked good, hand 1 is good up until the river. Hand 2 is good up until the turn, if villian calls a lot of cbets.

One thing I would like to note is that these boards are very non-threatening. In general, most players decide on the strength of their hand on the turn when calling a bet.

Since both these boards are drawless, I would guess that both villians decided that they were good on the turn and will call your river bets.

[thedustbustr]

when floating/double barreling, i usually like to have at least a few strong outs. overcards, a gutshot, ace high showdownability vs a draw, stuff like that.

when triple barreling, i think you should be looking for spots where villain has defined his hand very strongly, and you are already repping a stronger hand.

[terp]

[ QUOTE ]
when floating/double barreling, i usually like to have at least a few strong outs. overcards, a gutshot, ace high showdownability vs a draw, stuff like that.

when triple barreling, i think you should be looking for spots where villain has defined his hand very strongly, and you are already repping a stronger hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

qft

to add some more, i like to have an idea of what they might have more specific than can be gathered from your reads/action here.