$50 nltrn

tmcdmck · #1 10-11-2007, 08:52 AM

No hand history due to being forced to play java due to stupid reasons. it is on pacific.

my stack is about 1800, his 1200. blinds are 10/20. It is still early in the game, but he seems to be a donk. I double barreled him on a kxx no draw board with k5 and i won at showdown. he is apt to min continuation bet. I have raised literall 100% of these minbets, have been continuation betting 100% and I may well have double barreled 100% (aka twice). because of this i supect he may be playing back, but he is yet to so far, so I might just be projecting what I would do/ stating how the average donk behaves (but it is about the time where it should be obvious to anyone who knows how to play, and this guy has a +roi on sharkscope, that I am making tons of moves). he is yet to fold pre. he is the button

Villain limps, i raise 60 with JJ, Villain calls

flop comes 876 rainbow. I bet 120, Villain raises to 280. What next?

soop · #2 10-11-2007, 10:13 AM

go all in

BarryLyndon · #3 10-11-2007, 10:30 AM

Fold, you have the worst hand.

Seriously, I don't see what you are asking here. Did you lose to a set? I'm sorry. Did he fold to your push? I'm sorry. You can't let 99/55 have a free card, but you are ahead of both and can gladly get it in here. A8 may call you thinking you are on a bluff. I time it out a bit and make a push. He may think you think his raise is weak and call with A8. Whatever the case, such an easy push.

Barry

xSCWx · #4 10-11-2007, 10:35 AM

Push.

I miss playing on Pacific. Did they get rid of their 5 man tournaments?

tmcdmck · #5 10-11-2007, 10:53 AM

wait barry you told me to both fold and push, then seem to make it sound like it is pointless making this post. was the fold sarcastic? what would make push the best move?

SCW, yeah they still have the 5 man tourneys, and they are awesomely soft, but i hate them for some reason.

hra146 · #6 10-11-2007, 10:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
wait barry you told me to both fold and push, then seem to make it sound like it is pointless making this post. was the fold sarcastic? what would make push the best move?

SCW, yeah they still have the 5 man tourneys, and they are awesomely soft, but i hate them for some reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume his "fold" was meant sarcastically.

I dont think this is easy instashove though. I guess I couldnt resist, but meh... Im really not sure.

edit: sorry for hijacking; If US players were able to play at pacific, would you (for HUsngs)?

BarryLyndon · #7 10-11-2007, 11:31 AM

sorry, Yeah, I was being a little sarcastic.

Pacific looks and feels dirty to me.

No, sir, I think this is a push. I see the temptation in playing the hand ANOTHER way, but I think if you do the calculations, you'll see that when he does get it in, you're doing fine considering what is already in the pot.

It's not an easy insta push. I'm sorry for leading on this way. He could be minraising with a set of 6s, two pairs, a trappy AA (less so), a pair + draw hoping to get one cheap while seeing the next card but then calling anyway + an over testing the waters as a bluff/info raise. How to weigh his monsters vs. his retarted value raises v. draw raises and factor in which ones he gets it in v. a push and which he doesn't is a mystery. I still think you have to get it in, tho. There is already 500 in the pot, and if applied different weights to hands and what not, I think that at ~1300 to win 1800 w/ FE + some value against better hands, it's a push.

I can only go with what I've seen in the past when these minraises went to show down (which, they rarely do). Having said that, A8 is definitely in his range, as is K8, and I think that those two hands to "induce a bluff" against AK makes this a push.

I experimented one night, just for fun:

Hero (1500)
Villain (1500)

Villain raises 40, Hero raises to 100 with AJo, Villain calls:

Flop: Q 8 Q.

Hero leads for 140, Villain raises to 280, Hero pushes, Villain snap calls with A8.

It's a different board, but he sure was excited about his A8. I mean, 99+ and a range of Qs can all play the hand exactly the way I did, but villain didn't care.

Barry

hra146 · #8 10-11-2007, 11:36 AM

Your QQ8 hand: The fact that you reraised pf makes it kinda bad play on villains part. However, hadnt you reraised and I had no reads on you (ie, assuming youre a donk) I might snapcall this the same way. I have never been shown a Q here, ON OCCASIONS 99 or TT but this is sooooooooooooo often a random eight. Its not even funny.

Maybe this is about to change though, Im playing the 55s now as well. Most of my personal experience comes from 11s to 33s.

edit: none of anything in either this post or the one above is the least bit offensive! I wasnt negatively pointing at your sarcastic response either. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

BarryLyndon · #9 10-11-2007, 11:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Your QQ8 hand: The fact that you reraised pf makes it kinda bad play on villains part. However, hadnt you reraised and I had no reads on you (ie, assuming youre a donk) I might snapcall this the same way. I have never been shown a Q here, ON OCCASIONS 99 or TT but this is sooooooooooooo often a random eight. Its not even funny.

Maybe this is about to change though, Im playing the 55s now as well. Most of my personal experience comes from 11s to 33s.

edit: none of anything in either this post or the one above is the least bit offensive! I wasnt negatively pointing at your sarcastic response either. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of my experience comes from 10s and 20s, but when you see this type of villain, he looks like a transplant from a 20 to a 50.

I thought my push was pretty bad considering villain and the board there too. But the point is "what" is he minraising here, "why" is he minraising here; what is he trying to accomplish with the minraise? And, when a 4-bet smacks him in the mouth, what is he thinking about his A8? Anything at all?

Well, looks like he is thinking that his A8 is strong and that his minraise was made for TWO reasons: 1. Because he was pretty sure (but not entirely) where his hand is at; and, 2. He felt like he is inducing a bluff with it; 3. wtf, I'll call this 4-bet with my hand.

So, you have to weigh in A8/K8 in, IMO. That's enough to make it a push, right?

Barry

tmcdmck · #10 10-11-2007, 02:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wait barry you told me to both fold and push, then seem to make it sound like it is pointless making this post. was the fold sarcastic? what would make push the best move?

SCW, yeah they still have the 5 man tourneys, and they are awesomely soft, but i hate them for some reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume his "fold" was meant sarcastically.

I dont think this is easy instashove though. I guess I couldnt resist, but meh... Im really not sure.

edit: sorry for hijacking; If US players were able to play at pacific, would you (for HUsngs)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I would. There are quite afew sharks, but they are normally very careful to avoid each other (more careful than I have seen anywhere else), and the donks are amongst the most spectacular I have ever met. The software can be slightly dodgey about disconnecting, but no real problems. The traffic is not amazing at the $50 - $400 sitngos, but if you sit in you will usually get a game in under 2 minutes (okay not if you have super sharky stats and are sitting in at the $400, megah sits about doing nothing most of the day, but otherwise).

overall I give it 8/10 for HUsitngos. not as fishy as it famously once was, but fishy none the less, moreso than most sites.

Ooh one addition to this rambling post. the $50s kind of piss me off because the rake is 6% rather than 5 for some reason, and the 30s piss me off due to a superfast structure (I dont know why the structure is different at different levels), but the $100s are amazingly awesome 10/10.