New York City bans trans fats

[pvn]

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The "right balance" is "stuff that I don't like = banned while stuff that I do like = allowed" LDO.


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No, the "right balance" is that which creates the most benefit with the least cost of impinging free choice. Please do not put your own words into my mouth, I'm quite happy with mine.

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Please show your calculations of benefit and cost.

[owsley]

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Vague answers to important questions. "the right balance" eh?

I'll ask again. Can you articulate a principle or philosphy about govt authority over individuals that results in banning transfats but not regular fats?

Or do you believe the govt should have the authority to ban steak and ice cream? If not, how do you make the distinction that keeps them from doing so while allowing them to ban transfats?


natedogg

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You can't legislate away human judgment when trying to find balance in regulation, if that's where you're heading.

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Yes you can. You definitely can. By limiting the scope of what you can regulate. Do you see how by *not* limiting the scope of what you regulate, you let yourself become subject to the whim of whoever has power at the moment?

I've noticed that most of the pro-ban-transfat crowd also happen to believe that marijuana prohibition is misguided. If you are one of those, how do you reconcile those two positions? And how do you articulate a principle that govt must follow which allows transfats to fall under the jurisdiction but not marijuana?

Yes, alcohol too. By advocating banning transfats you are basically advocating all prohibitions on all substances because there is no description of the problem with transfats that can't be applied to a host of other things.

Edit: for instance, some crazy guy in this thread has already stated he would ban lowfat milk if he had the power, and his reasons were the same for supporting a ban on transfats. The only reason you can enjoy lowfat milk today is because this clown is not in power.



natedogg

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I support trans fat ban in restaurants for the reason that I can't practically make an informed decision. I can make an informed decision when buying packaged food with a nutrition label, and I would not support ban of trans fats for those.

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What gives someone the right to decide when I am or am not able to make an informed decision?

[vhawk01]

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I'm a Ron Paul fan, but I really don't mind this ban. This is one area where I disagree with him, I think it's vastly impractical for consumers to protect themselves against all kinds of dangers in a rational way, and history backs me up on this.

Scanning the nutrition labels for trans fats on packaged food products is one thing. It can easily be done, and I've been doing that for a while. However, when it comes to foods where it's very difficult and impractical to check nutritional contents, I'm okay with the gov't making decisions in extreme cases in the interest of public health.

The libertarian stance makes an incredible assumption that consumers have the requisite knowledge to know about all the dangers to them, they have the means of evaluating such dangers, and they can properly interpret such dangers. The whole point of creating civilization is to remove the need for such absurdities.

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It makes absolutely no such assumption. Nothing even close to that. It just says that if they want to they will and there is no free lunch. Rather than pay for their safety with work and knowledge they are paying for it with the freedom of others. There is still a cost.

[vhawk01]

Btw, while obv most of the libertarians and ACists hate this ban as much as anyone, from a selfish and practical point of view they should absolutely LOVE this type of stuff. It clearly isnt enough to convert any statists or anything like that, but it does get a bunch of people who were completely closed off to even the thought of AC to start using the same terms and fight on the same side. Not trying to say that if you think this ban is stupid you must think government is stupid, merely that it is an obvious dramatic overstepping of bounds that wakes some people up.

[vhawk01]

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I support trans fat ban in restaurants for the reason that I can't practically make an informed decision.

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You can decide not to eat at places that don't provide "enough" (according to your personal subjective standards, of course) information.

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But those places wont exist because most people dont care. WAIT WHUT?

[pvn]

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I support trans fat ban in restaurants for the reason that I can't practically make an informed decision.

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You can decide not to eat at places that don't provide "enough" (according to your personal subjective standards, of course) information.

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But those places wont exist because most people dont care. WAIT WHUT?

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[PLOlover]

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Yeah. Excuse me while I go get some ice cream from the ice cream tree in my back yard.

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obviously you don't get it. maybe someone in real life can explain it to you.

also just to point out, it isn't that all artifiicial stuff is banned, it's just that all artificial stuff are candidates for being banned.

[vhawk01]

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Yeah. Excuse me while I go get some ice cream from the ice cream tree in my back yard.

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obviously you don't get it. maybe someone in real life can explain it to you.

also just to point out, it isn't that all artifiicial stuff is banned, it's just that all artificial stuff are candidates for being banned.

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How can you honestly make this post with a straight face? Dont you see how absurd this is? As if artificial is some magical thing. It just seems like you've argued yourself into this insane little corner and you dont know how to get out, so you just decided to bite the bullet.

[PLOlover]

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Alcohol has the same chemical composition as water + hops?

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that's a good point and probably one of the reasons why the fda grandfathered in all substances that weren't causing a major problem.

of course alchohol had been around thousands of years, and made using a pre industrial process (originally)

and trans fats around only decades, and made using an industrial process. and eventually found to be very unhealthy.

see the difference?

also given the history many people would consider beer and wine to be natural.

but more to the point no one would consider alcohol and hops to be the same.

[PLOlover]

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Does it really matter? What about splenda? Saccharin? HFC? These aren't manufactured additives why? So far the crux of your argument has been "H2 gets passed through oil". Refined sugars involve all sorts of manufacturing processes.

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like I said just before this post, the above are manufactured additvies, but not all art. additves are banned, but all art. additives are subject to being banned if they are unsafe (there's your value judgement if you want a point to attack).