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  #31  
Old 11-08-2007, 01:29 PM
One Outer One Outer is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 - I see monsters

as expected. I think this hand is an excellent reminder to not project rational play onto our opponents. I think some of us have a tendency to do this (me included for sure). I agree with McGee that if there were ever a time to slow down this is it. Quads makes a lot of sense. But that doesn't mean we should play the hand this way. Obviously, against our typical low limit opponents we come out way, way ahead when we threebet/call this spot.
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  #32  
Old 11-08-2007, 04:49 PM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 - I see monsters

[ QUOTE ]
My horrendous mistake was overlooking that Villain could easily play K9 or 98 the same way on the flop, therefore it wasn't 50/50 on the river that he had quads.

Against typical live 2/4 player, how many bets would you usually do? Does anyone 5bet this cuz now I'm thinking that might be entering spewy territory?

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, it's NOT 50/50 that he just made quads. Even if you assume he had 99 or 88 on the flop, then the river 98 just tilted the scales in favor of 88 (assuming he'd play both hands the same way.) On the river, there are 3 ways he could have 88, and only 1 way he could have 99, so it's basically 75/25 that he has 88, not 50/50.

On the river, I'm going at least 5 bets, possibly calling his 6th. Depends on what I can figure out he thinks I have. Can he put me on AA? How about AK? How about 88 or 99? How about K9? The smaller the range you think he thinks you have, then more quickly you can slow down. But just calling 1 raise? Never that quick.
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  #33  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:25 PM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 - I see monsters

[ QUOTE ]
As long as our opponent isn't doing something weird with, like, a pair of aces, there isn't a single hand we beat that he should be raising this river with given his previous action.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you are completely discounting the possibility that he's doing something "tricky", or "fun". Or, as Mike Caro has pointed out, there is a certain amount of randomness to ALL players, and ALL players occasionally do something more or less on a whim.
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  #34  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:29 PM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 - I see monsters

OK I just looked at the answer. I'm no longer sure I'd go 5 bets though, but I'd definitely 3-bet, no doubt. At this point I'd be torn between thinking the only logical hand that's really consistent with his entire play is 99, and on the other hand realizing that players don't always play consistently. 3-bet or 5-bet, I don't know.
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  #35  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:32 PM
Aces McGee Aces McGee is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 - I see monsters

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As long as our opponent isn't doing something weird with, like, a pair of aces, there isn't a single hand we beat that he should be raising this river with given his previous action.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you are completely discounting the possibility that he's doing something "tricky", or "fun". Or, as Mike Caro has pointed out, there is a certain amount of randomness to ALL players, and ALL players occasionally do something more or less on a whim.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't "completely discount" anything. The very passage you quote shows me mentioning the possibility that he's doing something on a whim. That's the opposite of discounting.

-McGee
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  #36  
Old 11-29-2007, 05:54 PM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 - I see monsters

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As long as our opponent isn't doing something weird with, like, a pair of aces, there isn't a single hand we beat that he should be raising this river with given his previous action.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you are completely discounting the possibility that he's doing something "tricky", or "fun". Or, as Mike Caro has pointed out, there is a certain amount of randomness to ALL players, and ALL players occasionally do something more or less on a whim.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't "completely discount" anything. The very passage you quote shows me mentioning the possibility that he's doing something on a whim. That's the opposite of discounting.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're completely discounting any hand other than aces.

Now, if you're going to claim that you didn't mean that because you said "like", then your statement is completely pointless. It boils down to "there isn't a single hand we beat, except for all the ones we beat." I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't say something so inane.
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2007, 05:34 AM
slimhoss slimhoss is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 - I see monsters

[ QUOTE ]


Regardless, my point is this: If our river threebet is +EV, it's because our opponent has fallen into the trap of falling in love with the strength of his hand. Don't fall into that trap yourself.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

I really loved this quote. TY SIR! I can see I will be thoroughly educated by this forum. I am a NLHE player attempting to learn Limit. I noticed there is a lot of fellow Minnesotans that post here. Good STUFF.
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