Big Chip Rule in Cash Games?

[Headhunter13]

At a B&M casino last night, playng 1-3 NL. UTG makes it $12 by tossing out 2 $1 chips (white) and 2 $5 chips (red). Next player (who has a stick of red, green and white if that matters to you) takes 2 white chips, and 2 red chips and places them next to his rack. He shuffles them for a minute or so, and then takes a green ($25) chip off his stack and tosses it out. Dealer looks at me and says, "$25 to go." I ask why it's a raise and not a call. Floor comes over and rules it a raise since "he obviously intended to raise."

Late in the night, one person makes it $6 to go and the next person tosses out 2 red chips. I ask if this is a raise, and after realizing that it is a legal raise, the dealer rules it a call "since his intent was to call."

My qustion is: in the first example ($12 raise to you and you toss out a single $25 chip), would this be considered a raise or a call in most casinos? My understanding is that in a tournament it is clearly a call, but what about cash games?

Thanks,

--Headhunter

[Brad1970]

The guy in the first example put out enough to make a legit raise to $25 from $12. The guy in the second example did not raise enough with the $10 bet. He should put $12 but he didn't, so it's a $6 call. It has to be 2x the bet to be considered a raise.

[elgreenhornet]

you can raise to 10 because he's doubling the initial raise of 4 by 4 + the blind.

as for the actual ruling i dunno. where i play it's always been if you put out 1 chip its an assumed call unless the player says raise

[SlightlyMad]

In the first example, if he didn't say "raise" before the chip was tossed out there, it should have been a call. Just because I have $1 chips doesn't mean I automatically raise to $5 when I toss out a red in a $1/$2 game.

Every time that happens in my local B&M, it's ruled as a call in spite of the "obvious" intent of the player involved.

[PMarlowe]

Both were bad rulings. The first example should have been a call, and the second one is certainly a raise. Anytime you throw out more than one chip that amounts to a legal raise, you have made a raise.

[punkass]

The first should definitely be ruled a call. A big chip, regardless of what denominations you have in your stack, is understood as a call (barring a verbal raise).

[kak1154]

The first one is definitely a call, assuming he didn't say raise. No question.

The second one I believe should be a call, because of intent. Even though the letter of the law says it is a raise, I've seen this happen hundreds of times and it was always a call. Nobody even questioned it.

To be honest, I've seen a lot of people throw out two reds and a white in this situation, and the dealer always asks "Is that a raise?" because they assume that they mistakenly put out an extra red. They are then allowed to take the extra red back, making it a call.

[RarocASP]

Casino in question?

In my experience, both are calls with little room for debate.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
In my experience, both are calls with no room for debate.

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread makes me sad. This is the simplest rule in the world. How can so many of you not get it?

[Brad1970]

[ QUOTE ]
The first one is definitely a call, assuming he didn't say raise. No question.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if he said nothing & slid out a stack of redbirds ($100)? Call or raise?