2/4 QQ flops set

[jskills]

Pretty new to the table, but button seemed taggish so far.

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
10 players

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
4 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, <font color="red">Button raises</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls, <font color="red">Button Caps</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (16.5SB, 4 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">MP2 bets</font>, CO folds, <font color="red">Button raises</font>, <font color="red">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="red">Button Caps</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (14.25BB, 3 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="red">Button raises</font>, Hero ?

[Hydrant]

Well you might be against KK-3 combinations and AA-6 that will beat you, and you are beating AK-12 combinations it is 12:9=1,33:1 in your favor and you still have 10 outs for a full house or 4 of a kind, so do not worry about flash draw MP2 might have, so I would call and see what the river will bring.

Is this a good thinking? :-)

[lozen]

Call and he turns over two pair

[RatFink]

[ QUOTE ]
Well you might be against KK-3 combinations and AA-6 that will beat you, and you are beating AK-12 combinations it is 12:9=1,33:1 in your favor and you still have 10 outs for a full house or 4 of a kind, so do not worry about flash draw MP2 might have, so I would call and see what the river will bring.

Is this a good thinking? :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are behind then you have 1 out, not 10. And you beat AA, so that needs to be moved to the other side of your equation.

It is a call-down from the turn raise. You have check-3-bet the flop and he is still charging. I wouldn't expect AK to even continue raising there, since it can't be AsKs, and you should have at least AA or better given your play (check-3bet the flop and leading the turn after it was capped) It is KK almost always here. But you don't have enough of a read to guarantee it isn't AA, so 2 more bets are going in from you.

[JoeyJoJo Shabadu]

[ QUOTE ]
Well you might be against KK-3 combinations and AA-6 that will beat you, and you are beating AK-12 combinations it is 12:9=1,33:1 in your favor and you still have 10 outs for a full house or 4 of a kind, so do not worry about flash draw MP2 might have, so I would call and see what the river will bring.

Is this a good thinking? :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

He has no outs to a full house as it makes a bigger full for KK since that is all OP seems to be concerned about.

The button may be trying to eliminate the drawing MP2 as well. I raise and call a re-raise... only slowing on the river if I'm 4 bet again.

[gopnik]

I think you need to slow down after his turn raise. Your flop c/r is scarry as hell but he is still coming at you. Unless you read him as a maniac, just call him down.

[jskills]

This was not my hand, but I posted it for a friend of mine who was thinking he should have found a way to fold since he was sure the guy had KK.

I was saying I'd probably have lost even more than he did on the hand (maybe even 3-betting the turn since I never believe I'm up against a better set), but wanted to see if anyone thought there could be a fold.

[Fat Nicky]

I'm not good enough to fold anywhere. I'd call downa after the turn raise.

[ QUOTE ]
This was not my hand, but I posted it for a friend of mine who was thinking he should have found a way to fold since he was sure the guy had KK.

I was saying I'd probably have lost even more than he did on the hand (maybe even 3-betting the turn since I never believe I'm up against a better set), but wanted to see if anyone thought there could be a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

No there is no way to fold here because the pot is enormous. Folding anywhere without a perfect read on him is terrible.

I would also not have c/r'ed the flop but gone for a bet/3bet. There is a possibility he has JJ or TT and will let the flop get checked through. But if he doesn't have any of those hands he will most likely raise allowing us to 3-bet. And giving a free card on this 2 suited 2 connected board multiway in a giant pot is a disaster.

I don't think c/r is bad though, just less profitable than bet/3bet.

[fishyak]

Odds of being behind to the Button are about 1 in 10, but Button's betting says maybe he's got KK or AA. Also, there is one "dead $" (flush draw? or a nightmare JT for the straight!) still hanging around. I view the ahead or behind question as about a coin flip against the Button. But I cannot ignore the presence of a quiet player in the middle of all that raising. I am OOP to both. Call down. Check blind. A 3 of spades on the river could make for a wild finish.