Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown

[youtalkfunny]

"Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot. (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section 11 - Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule 16.)"

From Lowball Rule 15:

"15. ...If you miscall your hand and cause another player to foul his or her hand, your hand is dead. If both hands remain intact, the best hand wins. If a miscalled hand occurs in a multihanded pot, the miscalled hand is dead, and the best remaining hand wins the pot. For your own protection, always hold your hand until you see your opponent’s cards.

http://pokercoach.us/RobsPkrRules6.htm

[chucky]

The lesson for this thread as with many is to table your hand correctly and let the deal determine victory. She can miscall her hand until the cows come home, but if people just keep tabling their hands she will stop doing it.

[dark-o]

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However, when I brought this up to the floor away from the table as I was leaving (I didn't identify the player) as a "hypothetical", he told me it was the player's responsibility to protect their hand so the angle-shooter gets the pot in cases 1 and 2

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I just can't adjust to this simple fact of life: 99% of the floormen in this world don't know the rules.

I should expect floormen to blow this one (like the floorman mentioned above). I shouldn't lose my patience when it happens.

But it drives me so nuts that I'm seriously considering another profession.

It gets worse when I explain to people, "If a player intentionally miscalls his hand, causing opponent to muck, opponent gets the pot," and NOBODY BELIEVES ME. They think I made it up.

They go ask a floorman, and the floorman never heard of such a thing, so either he's wrong or I'm wrong. Well, he's wearing a tie, and I'm not, so his vote counts for more than mine, even though he's never read a written set of rules in his life.

Wow, I'm getting angry just typing this. Does anybody know of a good-paying job for a lazy, non-college-graduate who sucks at selling things and refuses to wear a suit? Yeah, I didn't think so. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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what if there were two players who mucked there cards. who would you reward the pot?

[SNOWBALL]

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So the solution is turbo muck a loser then claim it was a winner (I don't actually advocate doing this)


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honestly, they deserve worse

[youtalkfunny]

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what if there were two players who mucked there cards. who would you reward the pot?

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"15. ...If you miscall your hand and cause another player to foul his or her hand, your hand is dead. If both hands remain intact, the best hand wins. If a miscalled hand occurs in a multihanded pot, the miscalled hand is dead, and the best remaining hand wins the pot. For your own protection, always hold your hand until you see your opponent’s cards.

[bema03]

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Well, this is Red Rock Station - the limit games took a hit when they raised the rake - it is slowly coming back now that they reversed that decision. NL does great there. The floor is usually pretty good, and the dealers usually great, but there do seem consistantly reluctant to go after the regulars on stuff, which pisses me off.

I play regularly, am a winning player at limit games there, but am not playing primarily for the money. So I don't really care all that much about her action's meta-effects on the room at large. And she doesn't play 8-16 anyway (but I've been playing 4-8 lately since the 8-16 is only going ~4x a week lately.) I don't see any real advantage to me going after her when the dealers and floor won't, if I was a grinding pro I might feel differently about the situation. Maybe I am in the wrong on this, I dunno?

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Rather than calling her out in front of the table every time she does it, you could try alerting the floor as quietly as possible every time she does it. If you keep bugging the floor, they might start paying attention, pick up on it and say something to her on their own.

[psandman]

he floors probably have a pretty good idea who the regular problem players are. By complaining you give the floors who want to do something a reason to act.

[dark-o]

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what if there were two players who mucked there cards. who would you reward the pot?

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"15. ...If you miscall your hand and cause another player to foul his or her hand, your hand is dead. If both hands remain intact, the best hand wins. If a miscalled hand occurs in a multihanded pot, the miscalled hand is dead, and the best remaining hand wins the pot. For your own protection, always hold your hand until you see your opponent’s cards.

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i asked: what if there were three players in the pot, player A misscall his hand, and player B and C fold. who gets the pot?/?

[JeffBship]

At foxwoods 4/8 about a week ago, a guy showed his hand and said trips. The other player in the showdown flipped his and said two pair, then pushed his hand in the middle. The dealer was already shoving the pot at the trips guy when 2 or 3 other players said the second guy had a straight. The second guy was an older gentleman sitting at the far end of table and had several times had trouble seeing the cards at the far end of the board.

Well, clearly the straight wins the hand, right? Well the trips guy flips out and throughs a fit. His claim is that since the dealer had declared him the winner then it was his pot (there was around 50 bucks in the pot). Every single person at the table said give the pot to the straight guy, and he continued to through a fit. Even when the floor came over and agreed the straight guy gets the pot, trips argues that since the dealer made a mistake that the dealer should pay for it. He wanted to keep the pot and have the dealer match the pot out of his tray to give to the straight guy.

Well, I almost got up and left the table. I didn't want to play with a guy that would be such a jerk. Luckily for me and the other regular, this guy was so worked up over all this that he went on a tilt bing and rebought for about 500 bucks over the next hour, finally leaving busted.

By the way, I was talking to a dealer about Omaha one time. With so many cards there are often mini-debates about the best hand. She said at dealer school they train them to look at the board and decide what two cards are the nuts (hi and lo), then they can easily just check for those two after the showdown. This sounded like good advice and now before the showdown I mentally decide what two cards would beat me.

For instance: Board is QxT9x and I have J8. If no flush or pair on the board, he needs a J8 to split or KJ to win. Having decided this before the showdown, it's a quick check. I've also found this has improved my play since it lets me know exactly what cards he would need and I can then mentally review his play and estimate if he has them. (ie..did he raise UTG? J8 unlikely. Did I get a happy tell when the Q hit and put him on Qx, etcetera)

Moral of the story: One pot isn't going to matter much in the long game...if you're the trips guy be graceful and let it go, it's better for the game. And if there's a jerk on tilt at your table, just be patient and he'll pay you off.

Other moral of the story: Everyone makes mistakes, even dealers. Watch the cards.

[Rottersod]

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...now before the showdown I mentally decide what two cards would beat me.

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Ummm. Not sure how to respond to that statement. Were you not doing this before?