Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > Other Poker > Other Poker Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-16-2007, 10:48 PM
bigchips HI bigchips HI is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 18
Default 2-7 TD stats checkup

I am currently on the pokerstars downswing from hell program. I am set to graduate in the summer with high honors... possibly even magna cum laude If I can keep up the good work for the next few weeks.

I have no idea what to make of these stats other than that they probably suck really really bad. and I know its a small sample size, but I don't have much else to show and would appreciate any help or words of wisdom you may have for me.

Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball (Real Money):

1458 hands played:
- cards drawn 608 times (41%)
- won when drawing 153 times (25%)

Pots won at showdown - 159 out of 312 (50%)
Pots won without showdown - 255

Maybe you guys could request your stats and we can compare.

Its just that I used to be able to beat this game pretty good... about 4bb/100 over 72 hours of total play time. Up to limits of 10/20 at my highest level... Now I can't even seem to beat the 1/2 game.

and no I am not a donk, I play almost SS2 DN textbook Triple Draw. Obv I'm not perfect and make some small mistakes here and there, but I don't think I should be getting killed this bad.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-17-2007, 01:49 AM
Jigsaws Jigsaws is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: pumalicious
Posts: 3,768
Default Re: 2-7 TD stats checkup

Stats, eh, whatever. I just looked through one session we played together and noticed a few hands I didn't like.

Hand 1:

You're SB. I don't get your donk on round 3. You have to check-raise me there, IMO. You know I'm betting there every time. You got lucky I raised you since I felt you would not be donking with a strong hand. I obviously don't know what you had, but I doubt your river value bet is good either. I either outdrew you or I didn't.

Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit ($3/$6)

Button at Seat 5.
SB posts $1. Hero posts $3.

Hand: [4d 9s 6d 8c 2d]

Round 1: (1.33 SB)

<font color="#666666">UTG folds. </font><font color="#666666">CO folds. </font><font color="#666666">Button folds. </font><font color="red">SB raises. </font><font color="red">Hero raises. </font><font color="green">SB calls. </font>
SB takes 3. Hero discards 9s.

Hand: [4d 6d 8c 2d Qs]

Round 2: (6.00 SB)

<font color="green">SB checks. </font><font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="green">SB calls. </font>
SB takes 2. Hero discards Qs.

Hand: [4d 6d 8c 2d Tc]

Round 3: (4.00 BB)

<font color="red">SB bets. </font><font color="red">Hero raises. </font><font color="green">SB calls. </font>
SB stands pat. Hero discards Tc.

Hand: [4d 6d 8c 2d 2c]

Round 4: (8.00 BB)

<font color="red">SB bets. </font><font color="#666666">Hero folds. </font>

Total pot: (8.00 BB - $48)

Hand 2:

You missed a really easy value bet on the end here.

Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit ($3/$6)

Button at Seat 4.
SB posts $1. BB posts $3.

Hand: [4d 8c Ad 2s 6s]

Round 1: (1.33 SB)

<font color="red">Hero raises. </font><font color="#666666">CO folds. </font><font color="#666666">Button folds. </font><font color="#666666">SB folds. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 2. Hero discards Ad.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 2: (4.33 SB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 1. Hero stands pat.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 3: (3.17 BB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 1. Hero stands pat.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 4: (5.17 BB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="green">Hero checks. </font>

Total pot: (5.17 BB - $31)

Results:

Total pot $31 | Rake $1

Hero had [4d 8c 7h 2s 6s]
BB had [2d 7c 8s 4s 3d] and won ($30) with Lo: 8,7,4,3,2

Hand 3:

Misclicked the river?

Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit ($3/$6)

Button at Seat 6.
Hero posts $1. BB posts $3.

Hand: [Th Qd 6s Ah 7d]

Round 1: (1.33 SB)

<font color="#666666">UTG folds. </font><font color="#666666">CO folds. </font><font color="red">Button raises. </font><font color="#666666">Hero folds. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 1. Button takes 2.

Round 2: (4.33 SB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="red">Button bets. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 1. Button stands pat.

Round 3: (3.17 BB)

<font color="red">BB bets. </font><font color="green">Button calls. </font>
BB stands pat. Button takes 1.

Round 4: (5.17 BB)

<font color="red">BB bets. </font><font color="green">Button calls. </font>

Total pot: (7.17 BB - $43)

Results:

Total pot $43 | Rake $2

BB had [5d 6d 7s 4d 2h] and won ($41) with Lo: 7,6,5,4,2
Button had [7c 5s 3s 2d 2c]

There's another two hands where I think you're too aggressive on round 2. One you capped pre-draw with 2345x against my 1 card draw and continue betting despite not being pat (unless you decided to re-draw after I raised your bet). Another where I cold-called your Button open from SB and draw two vs. your three. I bet, you raise with what I think was 8543x. I don't think there's any value in raising there. I almost always have a better draw there.

Also noticed one hand where I open in the HJ, you cold-call in SB and draw 3. That has to be a huge error. You're always way behind and you're out of position. It might be fine in BB for the good price, but not in SB.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-17-2007, 02:16 AM
Alchemist Alchemist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ^ I\'m a party dog!
Posts: 1,133
Default Re: 2-7 TD stats checkup

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:

You missed a really easy value bet on the end here.

Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit ($3/$6)

Button at Seat 4.
SB posts $1. BB posts $3.

Hand: [4d 8c Ad 2s 6s]

Round 1: (1.33 SB)

<font color="red">Hero raises. </font><font color="#666666">CO folds. </font><font color="#666666">Button folds. </font><font color="#666666">SB folds. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 2. Hero discards Ad.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 2: (4.33 SB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 1. Hero stands pat.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 3: (3.17 BB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 1. Hero stands pat.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 4: (5.17 BB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="green">Hero checks. </font>

Total pot: (5.17 BB - $31)

Results:

Total pot $31 | Rake $1

Hero had [4d 8c 7h 2s 6s]
BB had [2d 7c 8s 4s 3d] and won ($30) with Lo: 8,7,4,3,2


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm interested in this hand since I probably would have played the river same as him. Is the reason it's an easy value bet because you could be standing pat with anything up to a Jack? Should he call if raised?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-17-2007, 04:26 AM
Jigsaws Jigsaws is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: pumalicious
Posts: 3,768
Default Re: 2-7 TD stats checkup

[ QUOTE ]
I'm interested in this hand since I probably would have played the river same as him. Is the reason it's an easy value bet because you could be standing pat with anything up to a Jack? Should he call if raised?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I'm not pat on a J after the first draw, but I am pat on any 9x or better. Of that range, I'm usually checking back 87432 and worse against a player I think is decent and I have no further history against. I would valuebet any 86 or better. So by check-calling he always loses a bet if he's beat, but never gets a bet if he has the best hand. This ignores the times that I'm snowing, but I do that a pretty low % of the time anyway.

If he bets I may make a crying call with a hand he beats. I can be a station sometimes, especially against an opponent who can be tricky.

He has a pretty easy fold to a raise.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-17-2007, 04:48 AM
Alchemist Alchemist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ^ I\'m a party dog!
Posts: 1,133
Default Re: 2-7 TD stats checkup

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm interested in this hand since I probably would have played the river same as him. Is the reason it's an easy value bet because you could be standing pat with anything up to a Jack? Should he call if raised?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I'm not pat on a J after the first draw, but I am pat on any 9x or better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, misread the HH

[ QUOTE ]
Of that range, I'm usually checking back 87432 and worse against a player I think is decent and I have no further history against. I would valuebet any 86 or better. So by check-calling he always loses a bet if he's beat, but never gets a bet if he has the best hand. This ignores the times that I'm snowing, but I do that a pretty low % of the time anyway.

If he bets I may make a crying call with a hand he beats. I can be a station sometimes, especially against an opponent who can be tricky.

He has a pretty easy fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. Explained well and makes total sense.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-17-2007, 11:14 AM
iron81 iron81 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Resident Donk
Posts: 6,806
Default Re: 2-7 TD stats checkup

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:

You missed a really easy value bet on the end here.

Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit ($3/$6)

Button at Seat 4.
SB posts $1. BB posts $3.

Hand: [4d 8c Ad 2s 6s]

Round 1: (1.33 SB)

<font color="red">Hero raises. </font><font color="#666666">CO folds. </font><font color="#666666">Button folds. </font><font color="#666666">SB folds. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 2. Hero discards Ad.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 2: (4.33 SB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 1. Hero stands pat.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 3: (3.17 BB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 1. Hero stands pat.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 4: (5.17 BB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="green">Hero checks. </font>

Total pot: (5.17 BB - $31)

Results:

Total pot $31 | Rake $1

Hero had [4d 8c 7h 2s 6s]
BB had [2d 7c 8s 4s 3d] and won ($30) with Lo: 8,7,4,3,2


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm interested in this hand since I probably would have played the river same as him. Is the reason it's an easy value bet because you could be standing pat with anything up to a Jack? Should he call if raised?

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone like the BB check-folding 8-7-3-2-x on round 3 here? IMHO, he's drawing dead too often.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-17-2007, 11:35 AM
MarkGritter MarkGritter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 1,376
Default Re: 2-7 TD stats checkup

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:

You missed a really easy value bet on the end here.

Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit ($3/$6)

Button at Seat 4.
SB posts $1. BB posts $3.

Hand: [4d 8c Ad 2s 6s]

Round 1: (1.33 SB)

<font color="red">Hero raises. </font><font color="#666666">CO folds. </font><font color="#666666">Button folds. </font><font color="#666666">SB folds. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 2. Hero discards Ad.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 2: (4.33 SB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 1. Hero stands pat.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 3: (3.17 BB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="green">BB calls. </font>
BB takes 1. Hero stands pat.

Hand: [4d 8c 2s 6s 7h]

Round 4: (5.17 BB)

<font color="green">BB checks. </font><font color="green">Hero checks. </font>

Total pot: (5.17 BB - $31)

Results:

Total pot $31 | Rake $1

Hero had [4d 8c 7h 2s 6s]
BB had [2d 7c 8s 4s 3d] and won ($30) with Lo: 8,7,4,3,2


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm interested in this hand since I probably would have played the river same as him. Is the reason it's an easy value bet because you could be standing pat with anything up to a Jack? Should he call if raised?

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone like the BB check-folding 8-7-3-2-x on round 3 here? IMHO, he's drawing dead too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fold seems close to correct to me. Even if Hero's hand range includes a pat Nine, the dead out calculator says Villain would be 4.24 to 1 to win, while the pot is offering him 4.17 to 1. And if he doesn't bet an 874, he's not getting any implied odds (in fact he probably suffers from reverse implied odds.)

Of course, against hero's actual hand it's only a 3.2 to 1 dog.

If you believe you have odds to draw to an 87, I think you have to bet/fold the river. Not sure about a 74 draw, I still think a bet-fold may be in order when you catch the 8. (If you never donk-bet your 8s, what are you going to get paid off with when you hit a wheel?)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-17-2007, 03:48 PM
 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4
Default Re: 2-7 TD stats checkup

[ QUOTE ]
Another where I cold-called your Button open from SB and draw two vs. your three. I bet, you raise with what I think was 8543x. I don't think there's any value in raising there. I almost always have a better draw there.


[/ QUOTE ]I cant see it as being much of a leak either.

There are 20 combinations (6 choose 3) of 1 card draws to an 8 or better which include a two. 10 (5 choose 2) of these are to 8s and of those 7 are worse than 8543. There are also 4 straight draws. Add to that your hands are scewed toward the better hands(one way of 2678 but 3 ways of getting 2347), the times you are pat, your one card 9 draws, an occational 2 card draw and him having position atleast I would raise here under most conditions. At worst I guess it costs very little to gain some desception/good image/ or put some pressure on.

Anybody else thinking that raising here is a leak? If I were raising 34, 38 or worse on the button I would love an 3458 against an OP trying to make me pay for starting very weak.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-17-2007, 07:12 PM
bigchips HI bigchips HI is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2-7 TD stats checkup

so much for comparing stats... i didnt get to look at the HH's yet... proly gonna need some time to check it out.

now if youll excuse me I need to get back to donating to the poker community
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-17-2007, 08:50 PM
dibbs dibbs is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 3,203
Default Re: 2-7 TD stats checkup

Just a side note that the swings in this game can be huge and last for a long time either way making one think they are much better or much worse than they actually are, but yea just keep posting and pluggin leaks, best of luck.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.