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#61
08-29-2007, 03:30 PM
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Re: Low Limit-Limit Holdem vs Blackjack, which is better?
If you are playing 20% of your hands and you have 7 villians who are playing 77% of their hands, you have 17.1% equity.
equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 17.109% 16.13% 00.98% 88158603 5356809.46 { 66+, A4s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo } Hand 1: 11.842% 10.85% 01.00% 59282836 5444310.54 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 2: 11.843% 10.85% 01.00% 59283086 5447770.37 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 3: 11.839% 10.84% 01.00% 59261499 5446392.96 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 4: 11.839% 10.84% 01.00% 59263722 5446122.96 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 5: 11.841% 10.85% 01.00% 59275232 5444270.96 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 6: 11.843% 10.85% 01.00% 59288600 5444065.96 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 7: 11.843% 10.85% 01.00% 59284350 5445779.75 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } If the pot is $100 before rake, you have put in 12.5% of the money($12.50), but you stand to drag a $92 pot 17.1% of the time($15.73). So you should make $3.23 every hand you play on average, just by playing tighter than your ops preflop. 
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#62
08-29-2007, 04:17 PM
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Re: Low Limit-Limit Holdem vs Blackjack, which is better?
[ QUOTE ]
It's 6 deck, Stay on soft 17, Late Surrender, double any 2, resplit aces, double after split, 3-2 blackjack (free deck of cards if you're suited). You can play the whole table if you'd like. Zero floor pressure. Looked it up on wizard of odds and it says its about .35% with perfect basic strat. [/ QUOTE ] acutally, i think the house edge is only .26%...what you've described is the green/black chip shoe games one finds on the south end of the Las Vegas Strip (that is, games one finds at Bellagio, MGM Grand, Venetian, Mandalay Bay) i think you made a mistake when using the advantage calculator - probably you did not check resplit to 4 hands or resplit aces... beating that game requires spreading at least $1-8 with one hand and leaving when the count drops below -1 true...i you play all spreading 1-12 is required, but 1-16 is preferable...with a $5 max bet limit you can't do that with one hand only... you would have to go spread to more hands to get the equivalent of your 1-8 spread, but due to co-variation a 1 hand $1-8 spread is the equivalent of a 1 hand $1 to 2 hands of $6; thus the $5 limit is still a problem for you... it seem you would need to go from 1 hand @ $1 one at true counts of less than 1, then spreading to 2 hand of $4 at TC of +2 then maybe 4 hands of $5 at TC of +3 or more....going from 1 hand to 4 hands is a big tell that you are counting...the house will know what you are up to but at that level they may tolerate it anyway... the difficult thing will be to get the table all to yourself to allow you to play additional hands...people will always come to an table with a player at it rather than go to a empty table another way is to back count and enter the game only when the count goes to TC+1 and flat bet $5 per hand...that way you always play with a slight edge...but then you will play only 25% or so of the hands dealt. head to you local bookstore and buy books by Arnold Snyder or Stanford Wong...particularly, BlackBelt in Blackjack by Snyder is good.
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#63
08-29-2007, 05:07 PM
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Re: Low Limit-Limit Holdem vs Blackjack, which is better?
[ QUOTE ]
If you are playing 20% of your hands and you have 7 villians who are playing 77% of their hands, you have 17.1% equity. equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 17.109% 16.13% 00.98% 88158603 5356809.46 { 66+, A4s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo } Hand 1: 11.842% 10.85% 01.00% 59282836 5444310.54 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 2: 11.843% 10.85% 01.00% 59283086 5447770.37 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 3: 11.839% 10.84% 01.00% 59261499 5446392.96 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 4: 11.839% 10.84% 01.00% 59263722 5446122.96 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 5: 11.841% 10.85% 01.00% 59275232 5444270.96 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 6: 11.843% 10.85% 01.00% 59288600 5444065.96 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } Hand 7: 11.843% 10.85% 01.00% 59284350 5445779.75 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T5o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } If the pot is $100 before rake, you have put in 12.5% of the money($12.50), but you stand to drag a $92 pot 17.1% of the time($15.73). So you should make $3.23 every hand you play on average, just by playing tighter than your ops preflop. [/ QUOTE ] Very Interesting! I'll make sure I raise every time I enter with these hands to build the pot. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#64
08-29-2007, 05:15 PM
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Re: Low Limit-Limit Holdem vs Blackjack, which is better?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It's 6 deck, Stay on soft 17, Late Surrender, double any 2, resplit aces, double after split, 3-2 blackjack (free deck of cards if you're suited). You can play the whole table if you'd like. Zero floor pressure. Looked it up on wizard of odds and it says its about .35% with perfect basic strat. [/ QUOTE ] acutally, i think the house edge is only .26%...what you've described is the green/black chip shoe games one finds on the south end of the Las Vegas Strip (that is, games one finds at Bellagio, MGM Grand, Venetian, Mandalay Bay) i think you made a mistake when using the advantage calculator - probably you did not check resplit to 4 hands or resplit aces... beating that game requires spreading at least $1-8 with one hand and leaving when the count drops below -1 true...i you play all spreading 1-12 is required, but 1-16 is preferable...with a $5 max bet limit you can't do that with one hand only... you would have to go spread to more hands to get the equivalent of your 1-8 spread, but due to co-variation a 1 hand $1-8 spread is the equivalent of a 1 hand $1 to 2 hands of $6; thus the $5 limit is still a problem for you... it seem you would need to go from 1 hand @ $1 one at true counts of less than 1, then spreading to 2 hand of $4 at TC of +2 then maybe 4 hands of $5 at TC of +3 or more....going from 1 hand to 4 hands is a big tell that you are counting...the house will know what you are up to but at that level they may tolerate it anyway... the difficult thing will be to get the table all to yourself to allow you to play additional hands...people will always come to an table with a player at it rather than go to a empty table another way is to back count and enter the game only when the count goes to TC+1 and flat bet $5 per hand...that way you always play with a slight edge...but then you will play only 25% or so of the hands dealt. head to you local bookstore and buy books by Arnold Snyder or Stanford Wong...particularly, BlackBelt in Blackjack by Snyder is good. [/ QUOTE ] Thanks for the info. Yeah, in Colorado, the floor could care less about counters. I failed to mention that the limits are $5 min/max so no varying of your bets - you can only play more spots. You can play every spot on the table with ease though. In some casinos here, at certain times you can have 3 tables to yourself (I'm joking but not many BJ players)! Have you ever played "triple action" blackjack? If so, any tips?
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#65
08-29-2007, 06:25 PM
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Re: Low Limit-Limit Holdem vs Blackjack, which is better?
well, it seems those bj games can't be beat by counting, not even triple play
so if you insist on bj, travel to Arizona - Phoenix, New Mexico - Albequerque, Nevada - Wendover, or SD - Deadwood depending upon which part of the Colorado you are in... or learn to play tourneys or how to hole card sloppy dealers (but that is an underground secret art no one talks about) otherwise, stay with poker
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#66
09-04-2007, 06:11 PM
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Re: Low Limit-Limit Holdem vs Blackjack, which is better?
JackHigh;
Our games are much the same here in Montana. Max pot limit $300 while there is no state limit on bet size it's the pot size. We have a ton of small stakes games here, in fact in my town most the games are spread limit 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, 2-5, 2-10. PICK your TABLES carefully. There is a big difference between a 2-5 game with a $1sb & $2bb 10% $5 max rake and $1-5 game single $1blind 10% $4 max rake. Also again read SSHE and reread it and reread it. I just recently went through it for about the 5th time and plugged more leaks in my game and improved my win rate almost 30%. (I have been a consistent winning player for over a year and half) This is in games like yours with 5-7 players seeing the flop. After you read SSHE then read and reread Hold'em for advanced players. IT WORKS!!!! YES 1-4 & 1-5 games can be beaten with 10% $4-5 max rake. Scout your tables it will help, if someone is offering lower rake tables play there and tell your friends it will help keep the pressure on the higher rake tables to keep the rake down. I was asked by a card room manager why I don't play their cash games, I told him I dislike the 2-5 double blind 10% $5 max rake I found a $3 max rake table with a single blind. This game is much better for a TAG player like myself.
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