Low Limit-Limit Holdem vs Blackjack, which is better?

[Bob T.]

The live game that I usually play in, is the 8-16 at Canterbury, it frequently is 5 to the flop for multiple bets, and how it works for me, is that I sit there, and get blinded off for a while, then I get some stupid beat, then I win a pot that it would take a trick pony to jump over, and maybe get a little heater to back it up, and suddenly I have a pile of chips that is a couple racks bigger than I started with.

The high rake in your situation, means that you don't want to get involved in a bunch of marginal situations, but you probably can wait until you get a good starting hand, and then you just hope you are lucky enough to pull a big pot.

The game you play in, heavily favors hands with reverse implied odds, because a lot of money goes in preflop, and the bet sizes don't increase, and there is probably less action on later streets, so you don't get paid as well for sucking out, as you do for being ahead all the way.

Be patient, and good luck.

[Gap23Razor]

[ QUOTE ]
The Blackjack games here in Colorado are actually very player friendly. According to Wizard of Odds they are about .35% and yes I do play a "perfect" basic strategy (not hard to learn).



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, basic strategy isn't hard to learn, it takes only a couple of weeks, and counting a couple of months...

But doesn't Colorado state law cap the maximum bet at $5?

So re: blackjack, how does one get more money on the table when the odds are in your favor (that is the count is favorable?) Is one allowed to spread to two hands, 3 or 4 hands?

A -.35% ev house advantage vs basic strategy sounds like a 2 deck game with H17, DAS, RSA (dealer hit a soft 17, double after split & resplit Aces 4 times)...to beat that game with just counting requires at least a 1-6 spread and penetration to at least 62 cards at the start of the last hand...more likely 1-8 with penetration to 66 - 70 cards...and good counters often get away with higher spreads and find better pen in Reno, Vegas, Tunica, etc.

So i think to get the required spread you will need to spread to additional hands on high counts...you'll stick out like a sore thumb...so i can't see how an ordinary bj player could beat the game for much for any length of time.

[Bob T.]

He's not talking about beating the game, he's trying to figure out which is a better gamble for his time and money.

[youlosepork]

[ QUOTE ]
He's not talking about beating the game, he's trying to figure out which is a better gamble for his time and money.

[/ QUOTE ]

the tips are obviously the answer to the question, play right and HE is better

[jackhigh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Blackjack games here in Colorado are actually very player friendly. According to Wizard of Odds they are about .35% and yes I do play a "perfect" basic strategy (not hard to learn).



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, basic strategy isn't hard to learn, it takes only a couple of weeks, and counting a couple of months...

But doesn't Colorado state law cap the maximum bet at $5?

So re: blackjack, how does one get more money on the table when the odds are in your favor (that is the count is favorable?) Is one allowed to spread to two hands, 3 or 4 hands?

A -.35% ev house advantage vs basic strategy sounds like a 2 deck game with H17, DAS, RSA (dealer hit a soft 17, double after split & resplit Aces 4 times)...to beat that game with just counting requires at least a 1-6 spread and penetration to at least 62 cards at the start of the last hand...more likely 1-8 with penetration to 66 - 70 cards...and good counters often get away with higher spreads and find better pen in Reno, Vegas, Tunica, etc.

So i think to get the required spread you will need to spread to additional hands on high counts...you'll stick out like a sore thumb...so i can't see how an ordinary bj player could beat the game for much for any length of time.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 6 deck, Stay on soft 17, Late Surrender, double any 2, resplit aces, double after split, 3-2 blackjack (free deck of cards if you're suited). You can play the whole table if you'd like. Zero floor pressure. Looked it up on wizard of odds and it says its about .35% with perfect basic strat.

[gobbledygeek]

Hey jackhigh, which do you have more fun playing? In the end, I find poker a lot more fun to play than blackjack. Maybe your decision can be based on that alone.

I used to play blackjack until I concluded it was unbeatable at my local casino (quit up $24 after 92 hours on the $5 table). I've been giving 2/4 limit a try (+0.58 BB/hr over 740 hours but running very good I think), not convinced it's beatable with $3 rake + $1 jackpot + $1 tip. But I'm having more fun at poker; in the end, so long as it isn't costing you a ton of money, that should probably be the deciding factor if it's just for recreation.

[Gap23Razor]

[ QUOTE ]


It's 6 deck, Stay on soft 17, Late Surrender, double any 2, resplit aces, double after split, 3-2 blackjack (free deck of cards if you're suited). You can play the whole table if you'd like. Zero floor pressure. Looked it up on wizard of odds and it says its about .35% with perfect basic strat.

[/ QUOTE ]

acutally, i think the house edge is only .26%...what you've described is the green/black chip shoe games one finds on the south end of the Las Vegas Strip (that is, games one finds at Bellagio, MGM Grand, Venetian, Mandalay Bay) i think you made a mistake when using the advantage calculator - probably you did not check resplit to 4 hands or resplit aces...

beating that game requires spreading at least $1-8 with one hand and leaving when the count drops below -1 true...i you play all spreading 1-12 is required, but 1-16 is preferable...with a $5 max bet limit you can't do that with one hand only...

you would have to go spread to more hands to get the equivalent of your 1-8 spread, but due to co-variation a 1 hand $1-8 spread is the equivalent of a 1 hand $1 to 2 hands of $6; thus the $5 limit is still a problem for you...

it seem you would need to go from 1 hand @ $1 one at true counts of less than 1, then spreading to 2 hand of $4 at TC of +2 then maybe 4 hands of $5 at TC of +3 or more....going from 1 hand to 4 hands is a big tell that you are counting...the house will know what you are up to but at that level they may tolerate it anyway...

the difficult thing will be to get the table all to yourself to allow you to play additional hands...people will always come to an table with a player at it rather than go to a empty table

another way is to back count and enter the game only when the count goes to TC+1 and flat bet $5 per hand...that way you always play with a slight edge...but then you will play only 25% or so of the hands dealt.

head to you local bookstore and buy books by Arnold Snyder or Stanford Wong...particularly, BlackBelt in Blackjack by Snyder is good.