Two backdoor draws in a big big pot

[Aaron W.]

More 15/30 at the Bellagio

Four limpers to me and I limp behind with ATo. The guy to my left raises, both blinds call, as does everyone else. 7 players to the flop for two bets.

The preflop raiser has been playing a very tight game in general, but he has iso-raised with a hand as weak as K6s (the player who limped in was a loose player, probably 50+ VPIP, and he iso-raised from the button). But his postflop play seems to be a bit tentative.

The flop is J9x giving me a backdoor nut flush draw and a pretty good backdoor straight draw (3 to a straight with one to the nuts). Checked to the guy on my right who bets. The read on this guy is that he's pretty aggressive. He could easily be betting a flush draw, straight draw, or middle pair (maybe even bottom pair).

There are 15 bets in the pot and Hero should ...

[KitCloudkicker]

i would fold 2nd to act. is this a leak?

calling is bad though.

imo, fold >>>>>>>>>raise>>& gt;>call

i might be wrong though, its a freakin big pot.

[neeeel]

i would fold preflop :P
what were ur reasons for playing this hand (apart from your superior post flop play ofc [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
i would fold preflop :P


[/ QUOTE ]

yuck!

[Hielko]

ATo is a good hand in late position, I would never fold preflop.

I think raising this flop is a decent option. Hopefully the preflop raiser folds, you clean up some outs and you can possible take a freecard on the turn. Or i'm too optimistic here?

[neeeel]

the books say hands like ATo arent good multiway, and u have 4 limpers in front, why is it so yuck to fold here, and if its not yuck, why not raise?

[tyler_cracker]

J9x probably hit a field of limpers pretty hard. raising is not going to "protect" our "hand" (A-high massively multiway?) or clean up outs (do you think the pfr is folding AQ getting 17:2?). all that raising does is charges us extra money to draw super thin.

our BDFD is 1-card, which is bad for our implied odds. we could also end up paying a lot of bets to hit a favorable card on the turn, paying a lot of bets to get to the river, and then missing.

much as it pains me, i think we have to fold.

f > c > r >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>> folding preflop lol.

[neeeel]

lol all you want, I would still like to know *why* its wrong to fold preflop

[Niediam]

[ QUOTE ]
lol all you want, I would still like to know *why* its wrong to fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

We have a moderately strong hand that has decent equity against the field and we have good position.

3,494,923 games 9.422 secs 370,932 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 22.297% 20.79% 01.55% 726612 54002.67 { ATo }
Hand 1: 15.549% 14.46% 01.11% 505510 38839.75 { random }
Hand 2: 15.550% 14.46% 01.11% 505531 38857.58 { random }
Hand 3: 15.554% 14.47% 01.11% 505683 38869.33 { random }
Hand 4: 15.519% 14.44% 01.11% 504510 38796.00 { random }
Hand 5: 15.531% 14.44% 01.12% 504674 39068.67 { random }

[Fantam]

[ QUOTE ]
lol all you want, I would still like to know *why* its wrong to fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

ATo is a good hand in late position.

When you have 4 limpers in front of you, that is usually an indication that those players are quite loose. So there is a good chance that your ATo will be the best starting hand, particularly as none of those players raised.

If there had not been any limpers in front of you, your ATo would have been good enough for you to raise with preflop.

You might fold ATo if you were UTG though, simply because with a lot of players still to act after you, there is a greater chance that someone has a premium pair or A with a higher kicker that dominates your hand.