New Bellagio NL Rule - The Betting Line

[MaverickUSC]

So I was playing Bellagio 5-10 NL and fired $90 into the pot in a clear, forward motion, making a nice line of nine chips extending from my position, all in front of my cards and hands. The dealer said, "That's only an $80 bet." He then explained that the line on the new felts are betting lines, and any chips not across the line do not count as bets. I declared [censored], called a floor, and he ruled that my bet stood.

A few hands later, the same floor returned, apologized, and said that he made the wrong ruling... IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN $80 BET. The tables discusses how retarded this is, and I talk to Skip the supervisor at the time. They know me pretty well there and know about my writing and everything so I get a decent amount of respect, but my opinions meant nothing in this case.

Thus, you could push your entire stack forward, about eight inches to the betting line, not cross a chip over the line, wait for an opponent's play, and then make your play... still in turn.

Retarded... and heads up when playing there.

Devo

[youtalkfunny]

I can't understand why somebody would put a bet "almost" over the line ($80 of $90). Even if no rule was attached to that line, the mere existence of the line is asking you to get your chips into the middle part of the table.

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They know me pretty well there and know about my writing and everything so I get a decent amount of respect,

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Frankly, when it comes to rules and procedures, I can't respect the opinion of anybody who cuts out a huge bet into two-chip piles. I deal with such players every day, and have yet to meet one who has sufficient B&M experience to really know what he's talking about when it comes to rules and procedures.

[SpeciesFlora]

I assume that would not apply if you announce your bet amount first?

[RR]

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Thus, you could push your entire stack forward, about eight inches to the betting line, not cross a chip over the line, wait for an opponent's play, and then make your play... still in turn.


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This is what most other places that have experimented with a betting line have found. That being said it shouldn't be much of a burden to get the chips over the line.

[tom10167]

The thing that pisses me off about stuff like this more than anything is oh, yeah, we changed the rule, but we didn't tell you, all the staff knows(A step above FW anyways) though.

You had to find out the hard way and got off light, I could see this really [censored] a hand up though.

[Phil Van Sexton]

Paul Phillips complained about this rule in tournaments almost 2 years ago: worst rule ever

He pointed out that this was inconsistent with their cash game rules. I guess they've "fixed" that.

[rageotones]

don't they know how not cool it is to actually anounce your bet OR put your chips into the middle in an organized fashion?

[RR]

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don't they know how not cool it is to actually anounce your bet OR put your chips into the middle in an organized fashion?

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The actual problem with a betting line is it introduces new angles. Now a player that wants to gauge a reaction can bring chips forward, but not cross the line with them.

[jeffnc]

There is only 1 aspect to this that should annoy anyone, and that's the fact that it wasn't "announced" or written anywhere. However are you sure the rules are not posted there, and this rule isn't included? It's like the law. If you get arrested, you can't say "Gee, I didn't know about that law. See ya!"

Poker is very much in need of clear unambiguous rules like this one. It's a good rule. Let's take a look at that link provided above.

"The new rule at the bellagio is this: regardless of anything else, only the chips that cross the line play. Under duress I got him to admit that if the chip was touching the line, it would play too"

What could be more clear than that?

"Was my chip touching the line? I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THE [censored] DEALER HAD ALREADY PUSHED IT BACK."

Valid complaint. Dealers should never be touching anyone's chips if they are not ruled "across the line". If the dealer did not think the chips were across the line, then he should have kept his paws off them.

But this is no different from any ruling involving a line. In soccer the ball is across the line when all of it is across all of the line. It's arbitrary but it's important to have a rule whatever it is.

"Obviously the bet was not 1200 because that's not a legal bet."

That's your problem.

"In my ten years of playing casino poker this is by far the stupidest rule I've ever seen. It is the ultimate in trying to fix something that was not broken, and in doing so creating what erik seidel called "an angle shooter's paradise.""

It doesn't increase angle shooting - you can do all that stuff now. Just string raise, or knuckle the table out of turn, or bet or raise an amount smaller than allowed, or whatever you want to disquise your real intentions. Your opponents should know the rule too and have no cause to complain if you move a stack of chips but don't put them across the line. OK, it gives one more thing to try, but as soon as people realize what the line is for (and it's not rocket science is it?), this "angle" would be about as useful as standing up and holding your hands in front of your chips as if you're going to push them all in, but looking at your opponent before you do. You've seen it on TV before. If something that cheesy get a reaction from you, that's your problem.

"It is enforced more selectively than any rule I've ever seen; 90% of the time nobody will say anything, but if you're lucky enough to be in the one or ten seat and have a dealer who thinks it's part of his job to interfere with the betting, you can get burned."

Oh you mean where a dealer thinks it's part of his job to enforce the rules? ha ha Yes, well if it's selectively enforced that's a problem I agree. It simply has to be enforced all the time.

This is no different than the rule that says if you just move one big chip out there, then it's a call. I was playing in a $1/2 NL game where a guy had plenty of "change", but chose to raise to $25. But he didn't say raise, he just slid a $25 chip out there. Dealer told him it was a call, and needless to say he was quite upset when he let in the family and got his aces cracked. It was obviously a raise since he had plenty of smaller chips. But that's the rule. If you can't follow rules, then just say "raise". This isn't rocket science.

The point is, everyone should know the rules. Anything about the game that leaves it up to vague interpretation or arbitrary judgement should be changed. That's what the betting line does. Good rule.

This is much ado about nothing. Simply say how much you want to bet or raise and this whole problem goes away. Stop trying to be Joe Cool and splash the pot, which just slows the game down anyway as people try to figure out what you just did. Just say what you want to do. The betting line is there for people who can't be bothered to talk.

[rageotones]

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don't they know how not cool it is to actually anounce your bet OR put your chips into the middle in an organized fashion?

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The actual problem with a betting line is it introduces new angles. Now a player that wants to gauge a reaction can bring chips forward, but not cross the line with them.

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how is this worse than leaving it up to the dealer's discretion whether or not the player moved their chips forward constituting a bet?