50NL: QQ gets re-raised, flop is all unders...

[O.T.G.]

Villain is 15/13/5 and c-bets a ton.
1. Is it spewy to call this flop and fold to a 2nd bullet?
2. Is it too nitty to just fold preflop in position?
3. Would you ever raise the flop?
4. If the turn was another low card would you still fold if he moved in?

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

SB ($51.35)
BB ($38.50)
UTG ($38.75)
Hero ($101.55)
MP1 ($66.90)
MP2 ($19.25)
MP3 ($45.50)
CO ($37.25)
Button ($51.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls $1.75, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $8.25</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $6.50, MP3 folds.

Flop: ($18.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $12.75</font>, Hero calls $12.75.

Turn: ($44.25) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $30.35 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $74.60

[ninjadanger]

I would shove this flop against someone with stats like that and cbets all the time. if villain's 3betting range is TT+, AKs, AKo:

Board: Tc 3c 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.386% 50.13% 01.26% 18859 472.50 { QcQd }
Hand 1: 48.614% 47.36% 01.26% 17816 472.50 { TT+, AKs, AKo }

however since there is a caller in between villain could be raising a little wider, maybe say 99+, AKs, AKo, AQs, AQo:

Board: Tc 3c 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 60.771% 59.74% 01.03% 30753 532.00 { QcQd }
Hand 1: 39.229% 38.20% 01.03% 19663 532.00 { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }

obviously some history would help to narrow down his 3betting range.

1)calling the flop is definitely spew since theres a lot of turns that come off you don't want to see.

2) way to nitty to fold this pf, but especially against this type of opponent.

3) see above

4) if it played out this way I still don't think I would fold a low turn card. tough to say for sure I guess. I'd have to be there...

[AllTheCheese]

Why would you include AKo in your range? He doesn't call a shove with AK off. His actual shove-calling range, TT, QQ+, AcKc, has us destroyed.

I prob play the same as OP. I call/shove non A,K turn.

[ninjadanger]

I used the ranges only to highlight how ahead OP was of villain's cbetting range. his calling range does have us smashed but I still push this flop over someone with those numbers.

[O.T.G.]

I also took into the account the fact that I raised UTG+1 and since his stats represent a decent player, he should know that my range is not too wide. Maybe I am just too much of a nit, but I just hate stacking off here, even if the turn is a blank.

I was hoping that my flop call would slow him down and we could get a cheap showdown, but hands like this just give me a headache.

[HesseJam]

1. I think yes, against most players.
2. Against tags a fold is ok.
3. yes, against lags I would go all-in on the flop. But in this constellation (SB has only like $48 behind) I would have gone all-in preflop.
4. probably yes

[O.T.G.]

You would raise $42 more and get it in preflop? I don't see how I would ever get called by a worse hand if I 4-bet from UTG+1.