How do they do it?

[gjpure]

I see guys who come in the casino every day and play poker, gamble, etc. Some of them are good players and win, and some are not.

The only time I tend to play poker day after day is in Vegas. I find that it is easy to loose my focus, and I get burned out on the game. I typically play a couple times a week and that is enough.

But I don't know how some of these guys do it. They come in day after day and make a living at poker. When I go out to Vegas I see the same guys playing day after day. It's their job, and it astounds me that they can keep their focus on what is a relatively boring game - especially if you are getting cold cards. I find poker very boring to keep folding.

But for some people it does not seem to bother them. I can put up with it for a while, but then I start getting bored and calling a preflop reraise with 95 suited or something. I just get retarted and totally illogical. Or worse yet I bluff into the nuts.

I can play really well at times, but if I am not getting action on my hands, not getting hands at all, or getting hands and missing flops, I feel like I have to force something. I play horrible and it is embarassing. I really, really, want people to respect my play and to respect my own play. I want people to say "he is a good player," not "what a donkey."

Now, its interesting because I have had several people say tell me I'm a good player, or I'm a tight player, and I'm thinking you should have seen me two months ago. They judge me from that one session.

Overall, I feel like sometimes I just need a break from poker, but I love the game so much, even when I lose that I have a very hard time not playing. I start playing really sloppy, then I feel pressure to win it back, and I become this temporary degenerate. I go to the roulette table and everything. It is a dangerous and slippery slope because I hate to lose. Not just money, but I hate to lose. I hate feeling like I suck at something. I want to feel good about myself. I hate just giving away my money. I jokingly tell people at the table to give me a receipt, because I am donating to charity.

What I really want to know is 1) how to people play everyday? Is that what makes them "pros"? The ability to focus day in and day out? And 2) how can I improve my own focus and patience, especially during sessions when I'm not flopping the nuts every hand and actually have to execute some discipline. Are there any exercises or ways to improve patience, focus, etc?

Again, this has been a very, very frusterating thing for me and it is the #1 leak in my game. I know everything about poker intellectually. I almost always know what the right move is, and then at times I just go against it anyway. I really want to fix this.

Any and all thoughts welcome. Thanks.

[JackAll]

Yeah, live poker is so [censored] slow

3-tabling online gives you 300 hands an hour
1-tabling live gives you about 30 hand an hour
No wonder live is so god damn boring.
I only play live for fun and micro stakes, but I find myself loosening up because IT'S SO GOD DAMN BORING!
Like playing 18% of hands at 30 hands an hour is one hand every 10 minutes!

But when I loosen up, it will be something like overlimping with Q9s. 59s is just retarded - especially live when no one folds and u can't bluff cuz THEY NEVER FOLD.


The easiest defense against "playing sloppy" is to fold MORE so that you are not even playing your marginal hands. Focus on remembering to fold more and you will improve your game. Sure it's boring, but that's the way it is. Only a small percent of hands make money. A bunch are around marginal and will cost you money if you don't play them well. Then the rest are all trash and will almost always cost you money. So focus on folding that middle group of marginal hands like JQo - especially when you find your focus slipping or when you start tilting or anything. FOLD MORE!

[JayKon]

Boring? Good God man, if you think its boring, your not playing the game right!

I do so much in a game that after a 6-7 hour session I'm exausted and yes ~20% of 35 hands an hour, or 40-50 hands a day played.

I play live 5-7 days a week and am frequently against people I've never seen before, don't remember, or whos play has changed today.

Who is bluffable, what is so-and-so's hand range, raising range, 3-bet rangs, push range. Who will donk off chips, who will call off/bet off his stack with top pair, weak kick, or draws (what kind of draws).

Who has tells, there are lots. Who knows it?

Does this guy think that he is a good player because he called as a 4:1 dog and caught?

How do they play post flop, turn, river?

Do they ever bluff, or make marginal value bets?

Can I stack him by betting small and getting him to raise, so I can reraise?

My God, the list goes on and on ... and by 2p2 standards, I'm a mediocure player.

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
I really, really, want people to respect my play and to respect my own play. I want people to say "he is a good player," not "what a donkey."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the heart of your problem. You are not playing to win money, you are playing to win the respect of people who really won't respect you anyway.

That means you can't win.

I think that you need to learn to play to impress yourself and not care what anyone else thinks about your play (studying aside, of course).

This is probably the most common cause of FPS. Trying to impress others with your poker genius. The problem is that the smart ones will tell you it's working and keep taking your money while they encourage you to do it more and more, while the fish won't even notice. Even if they do, you'll never know how to apply what they thought they saw.

Bottom line: Realize that right now you are not playing to win money.

Hope this helps.

Dov

[aaokwitme]

[ QUOTE ]
Boring? Good God man, if you think its boring, your not playing the game right!

I do so much in a game that after a 6-7 hour session I'm exausted and yes ~20% of 35 hands an hour, or 40-50 hands a day played.

I play live 5-7 days a week and am frequently against people I've never seen before, don't remember, or whos play has changed today.

Who is bluffable, what is so-and-so's hand range, raising range, 3-bet rangs, push range. Who will donk off chips, who will call off/bet off his stack with top pair, weak kick, or draws (what kind of draws).

Who has tells, there are lots. Who knows it?

Does this guy think that he is a good player because he called as a 4:1 dog and caught?

How do they play post flop, turn, river?

Do they ever bluff, or make marginal value bets?

Can I stack him by betting small and getting him to raise, so I can reraise?

My God, the list goes on and on ... and by 2p2 standards, I'm a mediocure player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel like a suck up cause I allways love your posts jaykon.
Another great post. A great list to keep with you when you get board playing live poker.

[ryang]

get drunk, it'll be more funski

[DeuceSeven]

Live cash games are so [censored] boring. At 1/2NL you can't bluff so you basically play uber tight, calling raises with small pairs looking to flop a set and be very selective with your raising hands and limp with suited connector in lp. I find cash games boring anyways, and I find playing 1 cash game live 90x more boring then watching paint dry. I much prefer 3+ tabling sngs and mtts online or playing a live mtt or sng.

[KurtSF]

OP, I know what you mean. I think this is the next hurdle I have to overcome in my live game. When I'm "on", and doing all the things JayKon mentions, I'm not bored and all is well. But there are at least 3 things that tilt me:

(1) Winning a lot
(2) Losing a lot
(3) Being card dead

I have confidence in my game, like I believe every poker player should, but when I start amassing a big stack my ego takes over and I start to think I can't lose and start spewing. When I'm losing a lot and I'm stuck I start to feel like I have to make it up and get back to even, so I start playing the marginal situations and drawing to hands, because, hell, "I have implied odds" or whatever I can use to justify it in my mind. And then there are of course those times where I don't play a hand for 2 hours straight. I have limited time at the card room and "I didn't come here to fold" so I start "making moves" and getting fancy.

The trick is to first off identify when you are tilting (or whenever you're not on your A game), and then following up by taking corrective actions to straighten yourself out, or simply leaving the game.

For example, in my last session I was playing well and catching cards and making money, when this hand came up: after one limper I raise 55 in EP for $12 and get called in 3 spots by the 3 best players on the table. The pot is about $50 and the flop comes K96 rainbow. Check to me and I lead out $35 and it folds around. The guy next me told me he folded Jacks. Now, I have 1/3 of the chips on the table and I am absolutely running this table over. This is definitely a +EV situation if I'm on my game, but after pushing out JJ I can feel the cockiness coming on. So I just announce to the table this is my last orbit, I open-fold AK UTG, and get up and go.

Discipline.

Concentrating on any of the things JayKon talks about should help you refocus on the game and avoid tilting.

Best of luck.

[justaPlayer]

It's really very simple. If you're not getting any cards, quit. One of the reasons I really like live play is cause the casino is a nice environment to me. I feel at home there, and I don't even play any other games or slots. I like the decor and the elan and mood of the casino. When I am not getting any good cards or I just don't feel 100%, I just get out of the game for awhile and maybe go get something to eat, or have a nice drink. I don't think about the game at all and I don't sweat it that things might not be going my way right now.
As aluded to in other posts, though, you have a deeper problem. The only reason to play poker is to make money. If you are in the game for validation, the respect of your peers, or even entertainment, there's no point in you playing. Suckers play the game for these reasons. Players feed on the suckers. It's only a 2-tier hierarchy and everybody playing is necessarily one or the other. So the only real question to you, in the end, is: Do you want to make money? Or lose money?

[johnnyknish]

i disagree if you have read the psychology of poker its not the case. it is ok that he wants to play for the respect of his peers. not everyone plays this game just for money. some play for the social aspect and the respect aspect. all of this does not matter it should be based on making good deicisions. because you attain both goals by making good decisions