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  #1  
Old 11-24-2007, 08:18 PM
Ace0fSpades Ace0fSpades is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Grinding it out in Boston
Posts: 443
Default Re: 2pair facing river shove on 50NL

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Calling this flop raise is spew in a multiway pot. Also, leading in this flop is not that great either as you allow the random junk 2pair/draw hands to build the pot and have position on you. As played fold the flop, assuming you don't, a check/raise all-in works best on the turn if you're looking for value. Honestly, against a nit like this his range is fairly evenly split between AT+ and a set.

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Why is the flop call spew? i get like 6:1 and the raiser is allin already.
I agree that leading the flop is at least questionable tho.
I lead the turn because i didnt expect CO to bet, he didnt show any agression in the hand yet.
His range: i didnt have AK, AQ, AJ in his range. pretty much AT, sets, A6 and A4 maybe.

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I believe your range is off; a villain running 12.7/.9/1.5 WILL NOT be raising hands like AJ, AQ, and typically even AK preflop. When a villain has a preflop-raise lower than 1 it is fairly safe to say he is raising QQ+ and sometimes AK. The VPIP of 12.7 tells us that he is also limping a fairly tight range, meaning that he is essentially only playing any combination of royal cards and pocket pairs. You have to consider that despite the odds you are getting on the flop you are completely dominated and will often be drawing dead or to a split pot. Furthermore, with an aggression factor of 1.5, I would not expect our villain to be showing down flush draws very often. This seems like a hand reading issue more than anything.
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2007, 07:42 AM
mAkCQRE mAkCQRE is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: the heart of europe
Posts: 26
Default Re: 2pair facing river shove on 50NL

[ QUOTE ]
I believe your range is off; a villain running 12.7/.9/1.5 WILL NOT be raising hands like AJ, AQ, and typically even AK preflop. When a villain has a preflop-raise lower than 1 it is fairly safe to say he is raising QQ+ and sometimes AK. The VPIP of 12.7 tells us that he is also limping a fairly tight range, meaning that he is essentially only playing any combination of royal cards and pocket pairs. You have to consider that despite the odds you are getting on the flop you are completely dominated and will often be drawing dead or to a split pot. Furthermore, with an aggression factor of 1.5, I would not expect our villain to be showing down flush draws very often. This seems like a hand reading issue more than anything.

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i am aware he isnt raising AQ, AJ. However he called after 2 limper, does that not possibly put lower suited Aces in his range too? I guess that depends on the player and cant be read from stats right?
And yes this is a hand reading issue, the main reason why i posted the hand was because what he really had just boggled my mind.
Results: i fold and he shows down 7s5s, i was like "wtf? o0"
shorty had A9 btw
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  #3  
Old 11-25-2007, 09:15 AM
kokiri kokiri is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Default Re: 2pair facing river shove on 50NL

I'm a station, so probably call this, but feel sick as I do...

...but in practice i think you see diamonds enough to make it a call. (LOL or a straight draw)

I would probably have bet the river, TBH, but i'd need to think to decide if letting him bluff is better or not.

I would take the tiny PFR rate with a bit of a pinch of salt, as I have seen it rise a lot in some cases, even after 100ish hands.

I hate the flop call though - not because of MP, I'll race him HU, but because of the CO call and UTG still to act.
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  #4  
Old 11-25-2007, 02:38 PM
WHITEBOYAEHS WHITEBOYAEHS is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: stuck the house
Posts: 539
Default Re: 2pair facing river shove on 50NL

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I believe your range is off; a villain running 12.7/.9/1.5 WILL NOT be raising hands like AJ, AQ, and typically even AK preflop. When a villain has a preflop-raise lower than 1 it is fairly safe to say he is raising QQ+ and sometimes AK. The VPIP of 12.7 tells us that he is also limping a fairly tight range, meaning that he is essentially only playing any combination of royal cards and pocket pairs. You have to consider that despite the odds you are getting on the flop you are completely dominated and will often be drawing dead or to a split pot. Furthermore, with an aggression factor of 1.5, I would not expect our villain to be showing down flush draws very often. This seems like a hand reading issue more than anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

i am aware he isnt raising AQ, AJ. However he called after 2 limper, does that not possibly put lower suited Aces in his range too? I guess that depends on the player and cant be read from stats right?
And yes this is a hand reading issue, the main reason why i posted the hand was because what he really had just boggled my mind.
Results: i fold and he shows down 7s5s, i was like "wtf? o0"
shorty had A9 btw

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I TOLD YOU TO CALL MAN THOSE ALLINS ARE LIKE ALWAYS BLUFFS AFTER A CHECK ESPECIALLY WITH A SIDE POT!! WHITEBOYAEHS FTW BIATCHES SHIP THE CORRECTNESS TFCO GUYS
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