(NL25) I need help against fish

BotOnTilt · #1 11-25-2007, 03:44 AM

This is kind of embarrassing. But I've been finding extremely soft tables recently, and I'm not used to having several fish at the same table. Usually I have a table with one, and I play marginal hands from positions with him since they tend to pay of very well - i.e. I play looser against a bad loose player. The problem is when I have 3+ of these players, I start to play a lot of weak hands as every time 2 or more of these players limp into the pot giving me great implied odds. The problem comes when there is another decent player in the pot, and I start to chase as I know I can win a huge pot if the fish get TP and the the other player misses. I just notice that I turn into a huge calling station in these pots, since my hand is never the best and the fish don't allow themselves to be bluffed and there might be another player in the pot which makes playing expensive.

The following hand is a bit extreme, as I never seen a table as good as this one:

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
10 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($9.63)
UTG+1 ($49.31)
UTG+2 ($39.53)
MP1 ($23.72)
MP2 ($75.07)
MP3 ($24.65)
Hero ($26.43)
BTN ($27.54)
SB ($5.49)
BB ($23.65)

PF & reads: I know my hand is very marginal, but UTG+2 has decent stats but is still down 3 BIN's in 900 hands, so I think he pays of too easily. MP1 seems solid. MP2 is 90/0/0.3 and likes to bluff with busted draws. MP3 is 50/3/0.5 and is steaming against MP2 since he just tried to bluff him by pushing on a four flush board - and MP2 called with a T-high flush. So I limp, not happy at all about the 8xBB raise but with so much money in the pot I still call with relative and absolute position.

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 10 players) Hero is CO 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB raises to $2, 1 fold, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $1.75, MP2 calls $1.75, MP3 calls $1.75, Hero calls $1.75

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($10.5, 5 players)
SB goes all-in $3.49, MP1 calls $3.49, MP2 calls $3.49, MP3 calls $3.49, Hero calls $3.49

Again I end the action and a ton of money in the pot, so I call.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($27.95, 5 players)
MP1 bets $9, 1 fold, MP3 calls $9, Hero folds

So, was I right in chasing so far or should I have folded somewhere. I thought about pushing my OESD on flop, but figured I have no FE and villain will pay if I hit, so I might as well just take the "cheap" card.

Also, I play quite loose from early position/blinds too if there are one or more of these players in the pot, do you think this is a leak?

Chargers In 07 · #2 11-25-2007, 04:15 AM

Play hands that will make big hands. J8o is the worst type of hands to see a flop with for implied odds. Change your hand to 64s or Q8s and then it's close, J8 is trash and will not be profitable.

re: limping in EP, limp with 89s/T9s, suited broadways, suited aces, 22-99. Don't get attached to one pair and you're good to go.

BotOnTilt · #3 11-25-2007, 04:36 AM

Thanks. I think you are right. I tend to overvalue my implied odds, I know they pay me off but its hard to hit w 8J..

JSampras1 · #4 11-25-2007, 07:24 AM

I'm not the greatest at NL, but here's my 2 cents. In games like that, i feel pairs go WAY up in value because even with a raise you know if you flop a set you could easily stack someone. Small pp's are my money hands in this situation.

You have to be careful with flush draws though. When i started playing NL i would often chase flushes without correct odds because i thought my implied odds were huge. But even dumb players can see when the flush hits, and then you hit the flush, bet the pot, and they just dump their hand because the flush is so obvious. And if you do get played back at after the flush hits, you could be against a higher flush, which will cost you a lot of money.

I'm not saying don't play suited hands. You were talking about implied odds, and i wanted to say be careful if you're calling pot sized bets because of your implied odds, because most people will not pay off the bet size you'd need to win to justify your calls.

Last thing you wanna remember about hands like you showed is that even if the flop bet isn't huge, often the turn bet will so big you can't call. So remember that unless you're somehow all in the pot odds you want to look at are for 1 card remaining.

Hope that helped somehow. GL!