TT oop in 3 bet pot - Page 2

chiTown22 · #11 09-24-2007, 05:27 PM

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c/rai on this flop is horrible. You might as well have bottom pair or air. If you get called youre pretty much always smoked.

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Isn't that the same as valuestack yourself on that turn card? The c/r on the flop would be based on the assumption that his calling range would be KK+ or a set.

EWS87 · #12 09-24-2007, 05:37 PM

i don't like 3bet preflop that much

with no reads at this level he is calling your flop bet with alot of hands

what i dont get, is why people like a crai on the turn...it gives him a chance to check behind and hit a higher pair

and it can cost us a chance to stack him with 66,88,99

it might be that i havent played 100NL in a while so im only seeing it as losing 100, but i think i lead 50 on the turn and obv call if he shoves at that point and realize im smoked

billybeartku · #13 09-24-2007, 05:41 PM

I would bet around 22-25 on the flop and CRAI on the turn. If I plan to 3bet with TT oop, this is the type of flop I'm willing to get it in.

chiTown22 · #14 09-24-2007, 05:51 PM

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I would bet around 22-25 on the flop and CRAI on the turn. If I plan to 3bet with TT oop, this is the type of flop I'm willing to get it in.

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I really don't understand the logic in the "If I 3bet with this hand I will stack off...etc"

A large percentage of the time we will win the pot with a c-betting on the flop. Therefore making 3beting more EV vs flat calling preflop. If you bet this flop and get called by and unknown, I think you have to put him on a pair, and with that read you are well behind his range.

Why would you just stack off on the turn, b/c you 3bet it preflop? What is the reasoning behind this play? If it gets all in on the turn what do you expect to be ahead of? Are you basing your entire play on a belief that he/she will bluff the turn with over cards????

billybeartku · #15 09-24-2007, 06:03 PM

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I would bet around 22-25 on the flop and CRAI on the turn. If I plan to 3bet with TT oop, this is the type of flop I'm willing to get it in.

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I really don't understand the logic in the "If I 3bet with this hand I will stack off...etc"

A large percentage of the time we will win the pot with a c-betting on the flop. Therefore making 3beting more EV vs flat calling preflop. If you bet this flop and get called by and unknown, I think you have to put him on a pair, and with that read you are well behind his range.

Why would you just stack off on the turn, b/c you 3bet it preflop? What is the reasoning behind this play? If it gets all in on the turn what do you expect to be ahead of? Are you basing your entire play on a belief that he/she will bluff the turn with over cards????

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The reason I'm willing to commit is because the SPR is only 3 after you 3bet pre. Over pair plays easily when SPR is 3, you can commit without having to think too much about it, cause often times you're profitable getting it in than making a tough/wrong laydown. Another reason is that you beat more pairs than you lose to, you beat 22, 33, 66, 88, 99 (44 and 77 not my concern cause you're beat anyway), but lose to JJ QQ KK AA but very less likely that the villain has AA KK(according to my experience, most ppl in nl100 play their AA KK very fast preflop).

Even if my reasons are wrong, you've put in 1/3 of your stack in with your over pair. After you put in 1/3 of your stack you are pretty much committed.

Thoughts? I could be wrong tho.

chiTown22 · #16 09-24-2007, 06:08 PM

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The reason I'm willing to commit is because the SPR is only 3 after you 3bet pre. Over pair plays easily when SPR is 3, you can commit without having to think too much about it, cause often times you're profitable getting it in than making a tough/wrong laydown. Another reason is that you beat more pairs than you lose to, you beat 22, 33, 66, 88, 99 (44 and 77 not my concern cause you're beat anyway), but lose to JJ QQ KK AA but very less likely that the villain has AA KK(according to my experience, most ppl in nl100 play their AA KK very fast preflop).

Even if my reasons are wrong, you've put in 1/3 of your stack in with your over pair. After you put in 1/3 of your stack you are pretty much committed.

Thoughts? I could be wrong tho.

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What is "SPR"?

After he calls your flop bet I blieve you can no longer put all pairs in his range. I know some players will float with any pair or over cards, but this is an unknown and that is a large part of my check/fold turn reasoning.

therealpk · #17 09-24-2007, 06:10 PM

3 betting is bad because you are oop and because you don't know anything about villian. Call me a passive fish, but I cold call preflop, and call a c-bet on that flop, then re-evaluate based on turn action, but probably call a turn and river bet.

frenchfish · #18 09-24-2007, 06:17 PM

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The reason I'm willing to commit is because the SPR is only 3 after you 3bet pre. Over pair plays easily when SPR is 3, you can commit without having to think too much about it, cause often times you're profitable getting it in than making a tough/wrong laydown. Another reason is that you beat more pairs than you lose to, you beat 22, 33, 66, 88, 99 (44 and 77 not my concern cause you're beat anyway), but lose to JJ QQ KK AA but very less likely that the villain has AA KK(according to my experience, most ppl in nl100 play their AA KK very fast preflop).

Even if my reasons are wrong, you've put in 1/3 of your stack in with your over pair. After you put in 1/3 of your stack you are pretty much committed.

Thoughts? I could be wrong tho.

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What is "SPR"?

After he calls your flop bet I blieve you can no longer put all pairs in his range. I know some players will float with any pair or over cards, but this is an unknown and that is a large part of my check/fold turn reasoning.

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Imo u can still put all pairs in his range but unfortunetly not all pairs will call a shove on the turn. (people love to put u on AK).

Tooty816 · #19 09-24-2007, 06:17 PM

Without reads I would not 3bet pre with TT. I might 3bet with suited connectors or small pocket pairs if I suspect he's stealing, but I can get away easily from a lot of flops with those hands. TT is trouble oop vs. unknown.

As played I crai turn.

billybeartku · #20 09-24-2007, 06:20 PM

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The reason I'm willing to commit is because the SPR is only 3 after you 3bet pre. Over pair plays easily when SPR is 3, you can commit without having to think too much about it, cause often times you're profitable getting it in than making a tough/wrong laydown. Another reason is that you beat more pairs than you lose to, you beat 22, 33, 66, 88, 99 (44 and 77 not my concern cause you're beat anyway), but lose to JJ QQ KK AA but very less likely that the villain has AA KK(according to my experience, most ppl in nl100 play their AA KK very fast preflop).

Even if my reasons are wrong, you've put in 1/3 of your stack in with your over pair. After you put in 1/3 of your stack you are pretty much committed.

Thoughts? I could be wrong tho.

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What is "SPR"?

After he calls your flop bet I blieve you can no longer put all pairs in his range. I know some players will float with any pair or over cards, but this is an unknown and that is a large part of my check/fold turn reasoning.

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SPR = Stack to Pot size Ratio.

this logic is discussed in professional no limit holdem vol. 1