TT first hand at table!

[ama0330]

I don't know. Im a pessimist?

There are so many reasons that someone could play a hand like this, "he's a retard" being only one of them. When I play poker I like to take information from as many different sources as possible to form a coherent whole, which I can then act on. This line is no specific hand, it is up to how you feel about the situation, and I feel like its a mandatory fold. I like to give total unknowns the benefit of the doubt as I think that 100bb is too much to pay for a read.

[You're No Daisy]

Next time just call the PF raise. I know a lot of people are advocating a 3-bet here and the SB is terrible. But seriously, do we really want to put our whole stack at risk on a coin flip seeing as this is the first hand at the table. It's not a great way to start off your session. As played, fold to the re-raise. It's 40% of your stack.

AC

[IlPug]

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I don't know. Im a pessimist?

There are so many reasons that someone could play a hand like this, "he's a retard" being only one of them. When I play poker I like to take information from as many different sources as possible to form a coherent whole, which I can then act on. This line is no specific hand, it is up to how you feel about the situation, and I feel like its a mandatory fold. I like to give total unknowns the benefit of the doubt as I think that 100bb is too much to pay for a read.

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Lol, okay. Thanks, wasn't sure if I was missing something huge there. I pretty much agree with you - as I said, I dont really like the idea of gambling here, when the potential edge is quite small. This is def. not as clear cut as I first thought though.

[wslee00]

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I don't know. Im a pessimist?

There are so many reasons that someone could play a hand like this, "he's a retard" being only one of them. When I play poker I like to take information from as many different sources as possible to form a coherent whole, which I can then act on. This line is no specific hand, it is up to how you feel about the situation, and I feel like its a mandatory fold. I like to give total unknowns the benefit of the doubt as I think that 100bb is too much to pay for a read.

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Lol, okay. Thanks, wasn't sure if I was missing something huge there. I pretty much agree with you - as I said, I dont really like the idea of gambling here, when the potential edge is quite small. This is def. not as clear cut as I first thought though.

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ilPUG, in your previous post you say that you weight 10% of his range to be premium hands, now you're saying the potential edge is quite small - seems like you haven't really made up your mind yet...

and ama - you can definitely put him on a range with how the action went, to say that your decision should be based on feel seems wrong here

[bravos1]

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Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

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why is it 65 with premium hands? While I'm not sure if I agree with the other posters, I am inclined to think that his range is more likely a mid-strength hand. Can you explain your reasoning here?

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Im with you, using Amas range, Im weighting it 10 / 60-80 / 20-40 with the most important part being 10% for the premium range, Im quite sure they have a premium hand no where near 65% here

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we know quite literally nothing about our opponent other than that he has played the hand poorly. what we DO know is that he has put half his stack in the pot and likely wants to put the rest in also. now he might be dumb, but given that we know nothing about him we have to assume that he's got at least AQs+, in my opinion. I can almost completely discount hands like 77-88.

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AMA.. why are you discounting hands like 77-88 here so much? I can discount AA/KK here much more. SB is almost closing the action w/ just you left to act. He is very rarely just smooth calling here PF w/ AA/KK and wanting to see a flop 4 handed. IMO, this is typically 55-99, ATs+, AJo+ far more often than JJ+.

[bravos1]

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Next time just call the PF raise. I know a lot of people are advocating a 3-bet here and the SB is terrible. But seriously, do we really want to put our whole stack at risk on a coin flip seeing as this is the first hand at the table. It's not a great way to start off your session. As played, fold to the re-raise. It's 40% of your stack.

AC

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If you knew it was a flip.. not getting your money in here is bad with >$7 in dead money already from UTG and BTN not to mention the money you've already invested.

SBs stack : $27.95
UTG : $1 invested, already folded
BTN : $6.25 invested already (covers all)
You : $6.25 invested already (covers SB)

SB has put in $20 of his stack also and is basically never folding. What chances to you think you can fold out BTN by shoving? If you think you can fold out BTN a bunch by shoving, then you should clearly shove.

You'll be wagering $21.70 to win a $65.15 pot.

How can you not like getting 2:1 when you are flipping vs his entire range?

[Snafu'd]

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Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is it 65 with premium hands? While I'm not sure if I agree with the other posters, I am inclined to think that his range is more likely a mid-strength hand. Can you explain your reasoning here?

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Im with you, using Amas range, Im weighting it 10 / 60-80 / 20-40 with the most important part being 10% for the premium range, Im quite sure they have a premium hand no where near 65% here

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we know quite literally nothing about our opponent other than that he has played the hand poorly. what we DO know is that he has put half his stack in the pot and likely wants to put the rest in also. now he might be dumb, but given that we know nothing about him we have to assume that he's got at least AQs+, in my opinion. I can almost completely discount hands like 77-88.

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AMA.. why are you discounting hands like 77-88 here so much? I can discount AA/KK here much more. SB is almost closing the action w/ just you left to act. He is very rarely just smooth calling here PF w/ AA/KK and wanting to see a flop 4 handed. IMO, this is typically 55-99, ATs+, AJo+ far more often than JJ+.

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+1

I think this is a situation where you can put yourself in SB's shoes and see how wide his range really is. First, SB is shortstacked. Given that we don't know how he got this way, I think it is safe to assume that he has bled chips through poor play. The reason behind this assumption is the way he has played this hand, which is clearly terrible regardless of what he is holding.

SB could be simply tired of getting run over and realizes that the pot is large and if he wants to play, he might as well get his stack in right now to increase his chances of taking down the hand. I think his most likely holding is any pocket pair. I know I've seen this line a few times from unknowns and when they've been looked up, it has been 55-99 more often than it has been TT+. So I'm shoving and feeling pretty good about it.

[Jay_Whufc]

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Next time just call the PF raise. I know a lot of people are advocating a 3-bet here and the SB is terrible. But seriously, do we really want to put our whole stack at risk on a coin flip seeing as this is the first hand at the table. It's not a great way to start off your session. As played, fold to the re-raise. It's 40% of your stack.

AC

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If you knew it was a flip.. not getting your money in here is bad with >$7 in dead money already from UTG and BTN not to mention the money you've already invested.

SBs stack : $27.95
UTG : $1 invested, already folded
BTN : $6.25 invested already (covers all)
You : $6.25 invested already (covers SB)

SB has put in $20 of his stack also and is basically never folding. What chances to you think you can fold out BTN by shoving? If you think you can fold out BTN a bunch by shoving, then you should clearly shove.

You'll be wagering $21.70 to win a $65.15 pot.

How can you not like getting 2:1 when you are flipping vs his entire range?

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Very nice

[Hail Eris]

Jesus, shortstack villain overlimped from the SB behind two. This is the easiest shove ever, and villain is often drawing to 2 outs. PF is meh. I prefer calling because you have no reads.

[wslee00]

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I prefer calling because you have no reads.

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you do realize that it was a min-raise pf?