How spewey is this? 5/10

[Rotterdaum]

If you think there's good set value, bluffing is a bad decision.

Other than flopping a set, there are almost no good boards for you to make a play at.

I think you're either making random plays, where you get it in as an underdog, and/or the set odds aren't good enough at all here.

[xorbie]

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I really hate folding this preflop to someone who's constantly 3 betting you. Its a potential monster and we have position. If i wait til 99+ to call 3 bets its +ev for him to 3 bet me with any 2 cards

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do you realize that 22 is a dog to random cards? its a potential monster but mostly its potentially a pair of dueces with a lot of higher cards on the board.

[Jamougha]

Not in love with preflop but the flop looks ok.

[SEABEAST]

i think this is fine vs some regs

of course you won't fold an overpair (well, maybe 88 or something, MAYBE) but the point is that he won't have one most of the time because he is threebetting so often. this is factored into the preflop call and if you are going to call preflop you have to slide this flop.

it's up to you to determine whether he is threebetting light enough for you to want to take this course of action but if he is then this is fine.

[4CardStraight]

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Well, I think you had 3 great chances to fold and passed them all up.

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well, i think opfenfolding 22 from the CO is incredibly stupid.

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Thats fine. I know I have open raised 22 from the cutoff on many occasions. If the blinds are playing tight and we have decent steal equity this is a great hand to raise from cutoff. If we are playing so deep that we can be 3 bet and still have implied odds to hit a set, I also like a raise here with 22. If we have severely loose aggressive opponents, and we dont have implied odds to hit a set if 3bet (ie if the 3bet makes it so that preflop we are putting in almost 10% of our stack), then I think 22 is a decent open fold here. Sure its a potential monster, but it also suffers the greatest set over set issues, which to be sure are quite rare, but happen enough that if we are playing on very thin implied set odds (10 to 1 effective stacks vs preflop betting), then it is consequential. If blinds arent going to fold, then we are simply playing cards that are unlikely to improve on the flop, against opponents that will be difficult to read, and we arent going to like any boards. If we are playing very tight opponents, or ones that are highly predictable, ones that will call us preflop and check fold most flops, then its a no brainer. Folding 22 from the cutoff is probably not even a default action, but I certainly think it is defensible, and I would love to know for succesful NL deep stack players what their average EV is for raising 22 from the cutoff, my guess is that it is thin at best.

But whatever, I dont mind being wrong, and I only barely belong in this forum. I do think this hand is unarguably complete spew.

[mdeck]

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Well, I think you had 3 great chances to fold and passed them all up.

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well, i think opfenfolding 22 from the CO is incredibly stupid.

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Not if you know that one of the blinds is 3betting you light and you are only 100bb deep.

[tozzy]

someone enlighten me why the [censored] this flop is supposed to be good to make a move at?

[xorbie]

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someone enlighten me why the [censored] this flop is supposed to be good to make a move at?

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we have outs, we often have the best hand.

[tozzy]

then the flop doesnt matter?

[xorbie]

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then the flop doesnt matter?

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that's really the exact opposite of what i'm trying to say since normally we don't have outs and we don't have the best hand...