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  #1  
Old 06-22-2007, 10:39 PM
Larry David Larry David is offline
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Default Weird Floor Decision at Wynn

This happened about 2 or 3 weeks ago at Wynn early in the morning with only a few tables running. I was wondering your opinions were on this ruling that happened when I was sitting in a $2/5 NL game.

I sit down in the BB seat so I post and have the whole table covered. There are two limpers and the SB calls. I take a peak at my cards in the BB and see 33. The EP limper had cash so I asked him how many bills he had while I was about to raise. He declared 5 bills. All my opponents had ~$1000. I make it $15 to go and everyone calls.

Flop ($45) A23 rainbow

I open for $40 and the guy with the bills calls me. Heads up to the turn.

Turn ($125) A23T rainbow

I reach for a stack and before I could even grasp it he grabs his bills and starts to put them in. After some table talk I decide the amount to bet is $200 and he shoves on me and I call.

River (~$2400) A23TA

Mr. Bills turns over A2 for the bigger full house. As he is counting his money out for me to pay him he counts down 6 bills. Someone at the table remarked how he said 5 this very hand as a joke, but long story short, the floor came over to make a decision. It was wether or not I owed the extra hundred or not because he declared a lower amount during the hand in a hidden stack that I asked to see. The floor ruled that I only owed for the 5 bills and not the 6th.

Reflecting on this, I think this was a bad ruling. Opinions?
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2007, 10:45 PM
uclaben uclaben is offline
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Default Re: Weird Floor Decision at Wynn

Seems like a good ruling to me. He lied to you, intentionally or not. You were under the very reasonable impression that you were calling $500. Why should you pay up $600?
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  #3  
Old 06-22-2007, 11:12 PM
Brettski Brettski is offline
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Default Re: Weird Floor Decision at Wynn

On the turn, you should probably have asked for a count before calling. Mind you, hindsight is 20/20. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I think that provided all the chips were in plain view, you would be held to the full amount (i.e. the extra $100). The problem here is that not all of his bank was in the form of chips.

Hypothetically, do you think the decision would have been different if only chips had been in play?
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  #4  
Old 06-22-2007, 11:17 PM
RR RR is offline
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Default Re: Weird Floor Decision at Wynn

There are two contradicting principles in play here. One is he stated he had 5 bills so the 6th bill could be treated like a hidden bill and not play. The other is that had you won the pot since you covered him he would have shipped his money over wth out it being counted. In this case I would allow the 6th bill to play. If he had declared 5 bills when in fact he had 12 bills only the 5 would play.
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  #5  
Old 06-23-2007, 01:50 PM
MrFizzbin MrFizzbin is offline
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Default Re: Weird Floor Decision at Wynn

It's an honest mistake on the other players part, you could have asked for a count before the call to make sure but you didn't, and if you had its not like the extra hundred would have made you fold would it ?

If you had won and counted that there were 6 bills instead of 5 would you have let him keep the 1 he didn't tell you about ? if so then the ruling is right, if you would have kept the extra 1 then you should have paid him.
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  #6  
Old 06-23-2007, 01:57 PM
psandman psandman is offline
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Default Re: Weird Floor Decision at Wynn

[ QUOTE ]
If you had won and counted that there were 6 bills instead of 5 would you have let him keep the 1 he didn't tell you about ? if so then the ruling is right, if you would have kept the extra 1 then you should have paid him.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason i don't like this analysis, is that assumes that the misstatement was not the fault of the other player. I don't think its unfair to put the other player in a position that he is disadvantaged at (he can't win the extra bill but he can lose it) where the mistake is his. would be more inclined to go with your anlaysis if the dealer was the one who made the misstatement.
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  #7  
Old 06-23-2007, 03:26 PM
anduril anduril is offline
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Default Re: Weird Floor Decision at Wynn

the dealer should've asked to count when there was an all-in, and you probably should've made sure how many bills there were.
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  #8  
Old 06-23-2007, 03:42 PM
RR RR is offline
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Default Re: Weird Floor Decision at Wynn

[ QUOTE ]
the dealer should've asked to count when there was an all-in, and you probably should've made sure how many bills there were.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is specifically wrong. The dealer shouuld not touch/count or cause to be counted an all-in unless requested by a player.
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2007, 03:55 PM
Chipr777 Chipr777 is offline
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Default Re: Weird Floor Decision at Wynn

[ QUOTE ]
the dealer should've asked to count when there was an all-in, and you probably should've made sure how many bills there were.

[/ QUOTE ] The dealer should never touch another persons stack unless it is requested by another player.
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  #10  
Old 06-23-2007, 04:59 PM
youtalkfunny youtalkfunny is offline
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Default Re: Weird Floor Decision at Wynn

I'm in the "protect yourself at all times" camp. Since you asked how many bills were there, I think you did your due diligence. When the guy says he has five bills, you can't be expected to say, "Prove it! Fan them out! Bring them over here, let me count them!"

If I'm the floor, I rule that since he won, five bills play.
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