JJ would you have played it differently?

[Oink]

AW

If villain isnt bluffing busted fd's and lower pp's on the river you are absolutely right. Bet turn.

But I can not see how you can ever assume that should be the case. In my expecrince villain will bet crap on the river pretty often. Not just busted fd's but also air that would have folded on the turn.

Without a read I am checking this turn all day long

[S. L.]

oink, don't you think that limping from MP is enough of a read to assume that he is somewhat passive, so he generally preferes to call than bluff? (not a rhetorical question)

[Xylocain]

oops, post count +1

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
AW

If villain isnt bluffing busted fd's and lower pp's on the river you are absolutely right. Bet turn.

But I can not see how you can ever assume that should be the case. In my expecrince villain will bet crap on the river pretty often. Not just busted fd's but also air that would have folded on the turn.

Without a read I am checking this turn all day long

[/ QUOTE ]

Go with your experience and whatever reads you have at that specific moment. We're at the level of pure speculation at this point.

My basic microlimit principle is

[ QUOTE ]
When in doubt, value bet > checking to induce a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

so I'm betting the turn.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
oink, don't you think that limping from MP is enough of a read to assume that he is somewhat passive, so he generally preferes to call than bluff? (not a rhetorical question)

[/ QUOTE ]

No

Bad players make bad plays. IMO its much easier to induce a bluff from a bad loose passive than a fairly good LAG.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
oink, don't you think that limping from MP is enough of a read to assume that he is somewhat passive, so he generally preferes to call than bluff? (not a rhetorical question)

[/ QUOTE ]

No

Bad players make bad plays. IMO its much easier to induce a bluff from a bad loose passive than a fairly good LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to disagree with this quite strongly.

Bad players make bad plays, but they make mistakes in line with their playing style. Callers call too much and bluffers bluff too much. If they played poorly in the opposite style, then they would be somewhat good because they would actually be mimicking a good bluffing/calldown frequency.

[Shillx]

Gotta bet the river (you might not get called but your hand is almost always good). Checking the river might be best against a good/tricky player that will (sometimes) check a boss hand twice but an unknown will call with a worse hand much more often then he will check/raise a king or call with Ax. The rest of the hand is fine.

[Xylocain]

[ QUOTE ]
If they played poorly in the opposite style, then they would be somewhat good because they would actually be mimicking a good bluffing/calldown frequency.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is true for many people who are very lose pre flop. They tend to bluff a lot at orphan pots and scare cards and to partly make up for early street atrocities. Those who dont will go broke so fast you wont even notice them.

[bellatrix]

There are two lines you could take here on the turn.

a) you could keep betting. The A is a scare card for him, too and see how he responds. But I probably would fold to a raise.

b) You could check the turn as you did, but then fire off a value bet on river. As others mentioned, there are some combinations like lower PP that will still call that bet, plus some non-paired overcards that will call thinking we are bluffing. Unfortunately at micros a c/r on the river is VERY strong, so you would have to fold to raise, but I still think the value of betting is larger than the times you lose that bet to a c/r.

BTW, your EV by value-betting is not very large as others mentioned, but it's those small little things that make the difference, IMO.
Also, if this were mid-limit, I still would have no idea what to do with a c/r as people are very capable of c/r bluffing a busted draw there.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, the bottom end of your raising range includes AK or even AQ, both pretty frightening hands against a limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to comment on this, but I want to make sure I understand you correctly before I do.

In hero's place, what is your raising range here?