5cd:how to draw with total crap

[skillzilla]

when i get a freeplay from bb for instance and i have no pair, no 4 flush or oesd then how whould i draw. shouldi draw 4 and keep and ace should i draw all 5 new, should i draw to a 3flush or a gutshot?

[Al Mirpuri]

[ QUOTE ]
when i get a freeplay from bb for instance and i have no pair, no 4 flush or oesd then how whould i draw. shouldi draw 4 and keep and ace should i draw all 5 new, should i draw to a 3flush or a gutshot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to know the answer to this myself.

[List]

I generally draw 4 to a broadway, or 3 to 2 broadway. I'm not sure how correct that is.

[soulvamp]

Draw to A and/or K, toss everything else.

[bigpooch]

DRAWING WITH CRAP (or almost)

This can sometimes depend on the action. You can break
down the situations into the following cases:

1) HU vs SB
2) HU vs limper in late position
3) HU vs limper in early position
4) 3-way pots including the SB with a late position limper
5) 3-way pots including the SB with an early position limper
6) 3-way pots not including the SB
7) multiway pots (3 or more opponents)

Obviously, the further down on the list, you want to make
a better hand.


HEADS UP
--------

When you are heads up, you are essentially trying to make a
winning pair. You have a free shot to make that winning
pair and the worst that could happen is that you make a pair
and your lone opponent fires a bet and you fold if it's
likely a losing hand. Weak gutshots and even some openended
straight draws and very weak flush draws should be ignored
since the main goal is to make a big enough pair.

1) When up against the small blind, since he limped, he
probably doesn't have 77 or better, so therefore you want
to keep any card that has some chance of winning if you
pair up on it. The small blind could have limped in with a
hand such as AJxyz or AQxyz and is just hoping to catch a
pair. If you have two cards HIGHER than a nine, you should
simply draw three to your highest two cards unless you have
a royal flush cathop that you decided not to semibluff with,
in which case you try to make a royal flush.

There is a close decision on AKQxy. You would almost always
draw three to AK unless you know the small blind open raises
with a lot of pairs including 44 and limps in with hands
such as AK, AQ, AJ, AT or KQ; only then, would you consider
drawing two to AKQ. Obviously, with AKJxy, you draw three.

Common mistake/leak:
...........................

A very common mistake I see players make is drawing two to
hands such as AQJ, KQJ, etc. It's only a few pennies here
and there, but that's why we play the game, right? You
simply draw three to your highest two cards with one major
exception: when you have a royal flush cathop (and even
with AKTs/KQTs, it's debatable: you may want to draw three
to AK against most of your opponents).

When you have a NINE, you tend to keep it as well, since
even a pair of nines can win against a small blind that has
limped in. When you have an EIGHT, you probably want to
use some judgment: e.g., if this player has raised with 77
from the SB, keeping an eight now makes sense if he has
failed to raise. Still, with a hand like As 8h 7d 6c 4d,
you may be better off drawing four (forget about your
gutshot; BTW, even if you have A7654, you should tend to
forget your openended straight draw and simply draw four
against most opponents).

The above applies to the small blind that draws exactly
three cards. If the small blind draws four cards (!), you
draw three to AJ, AQ and AK and four to a K (unless you
want to bluff with a busted KQ suited by drawing three) and
four to a queen. [ I think with a jack, you probably are
better off drawing five against a four card draw to
presumably a card higher than a jack! ]

Now, if the small blind does a fair amount of trapping, you
probably want to ditch a nine or eight when you have an ace
since you want to maximize your chances of making three aces
or better. Then you might want to draw to a very weak
openender or flush draw rather than four to an A/K/Q/J
against a habitual trapper who might be drawing two to
not just 22A or 33A, but trips.


Examples: assume your opponent in the small blind has drawn
three cards

a) Qs 6d 5d 4d 3c; you usually draw four to a queen unless
against a trapper, but here he could only be trapping you
with AA

b) Ad 8s 5s 4s 3s; you usually draw four to the ace; forget
the pathetic flush draw unless your opponent will lay down
often

c) Qs Js Ts 7h 2d; draw two to your cathop

d) Ts 9s 7d 6c 3d; draw three to T9; forget the gutshot

e) 8s 7h 4d 3c 2c; draw either four or five

f) 2d 2c As Ks 9h; your guess is as good as mine! I can
see keeping 22, AsKs and drawing two to 22A as possible!
Sure, you have a pair, and a lot depends on your opponent.


When your opponent has limped in from another spot, you
now want to draw to your flush or openender and even a
gutshot if nothing else looks appealing.

2) Late position limpers, if they aren't trapping will
often have just hands such as TT, 99 or 88, so now you
may just want to pitch your ten especially when heads up
against a cutoff limper. Player notes help a lot: for
example, if the cutoff has limped in from his spot with
JJ before, you probably want to draw four to KJxyz.


3) Early position limpers could even have a hand as strong
as KK, but you won't be too far off if you always drew
three to AKxyz. The question is when to ditch a queen.
I think you should seriously toss a queen if you've never
seen this player limp in with JJ but have seen him limp in
with QQ. Even ditching a king when you have AK-high or
K-high is not out of the question, but you probably should
tend to keep your king unless your opponent seems unlikely
to have limped in with less than KK.


Examples: assume you are HU versus an utg limper who has
trapped with JJJ and open limped with KK in the past (and
you think this guy is very tight since he limped in with
QQ in the cutoff)

g) As Qh 6h 3s 2s; draw four; two to As 3s 2s is the only
serious alternative, but your opponent could have KK

h) Ks Jh Th 9d 2c; one to a gutshot, if you are lucky, you
may catch a case king and still win

i) Kh Ts 9s 7s 2c; two to your cathop seems best, otherwise
five is the only serious alternative, but you would love to
fluke out against a hand like high trips and it's less
likely your oppnent has KK since you already have one

j) Qs 7h 5s 3h 2h; it's a bit more likely that your up
against KK, so you may as well toss five; two to 732 suited
could work out, but you don't necessarily have to make a
big hand here: you only need to beat KK. You are reducing
your chances by a few points of making AA+ if you shoot for
the stars!

4) Here again, you are simply striving to make a pair and
hope it gets checked around when you are able to make a big
pair such as JJ or better.

5) Now, there are complications since the early position
limper could be trapping and would the small blind be limping
in with KK (or even better, worried about a possible trap?).
You often have to toss four or five, but always pay attention
for a cathop or if you have something like ATx suited (where
you might want to draw two to your flush).


6) This resembles 4) or 5) above and depends on the first
limper.

7) Here, you are trying to make at least aces up, so you
want to keep an ace and toss any king in most cases. Sure,
you won't be betting with aces up, but you can easily call
a button bet with it and sometimes it gets checked around.


STRANGE DRAWS
-------------

Obviously, if you don't have a gutshot, or an openended
straight draw or flush draw, the best kind of draw you can
have is either a cathop or something like Axy suited. The
best kind of cathop is 3 parts of a royal flush, so you
generally draw two to hands even as weak as KJTs.

Examples: assume everyone limped except the hijack, so it
is a five-way pot.

k) As Ts 8h 6s 2c; draw two to your flush; the only
alternative is to draw four to the ace

l) Js 9h 8h 7c 3h; draw one to your gutshot and hope you
don't make a losing hand: you might even muck a straight
depending on who bets

m) As 9h 8h 4h 2s; this is a tough choice: you are about
two points better to make 444+ by drawing to your 3-flush,
so you have to ask yourself what your chances are of
winning with AA only. I would draw four to an ace here,
since paying off with a hand like 999 or 888 when someone
who draws one bets out and you're the last defender of pot
is ugly, especially when almost every dog is in the pot.
Surely, you've remembered all those pots you've won that
were 4-way or 5-way when you raised from the BB and won
with AA unimproved?

n) As Qh 5s 4s 2d; if you draw one, you'll have to use some
judgment to get off your wheel, but I think that's better
than the cathop; who says you ever have to bet?


A funny hand
................

Off-topic, I held something like Ah Ks 4s 3s 2d in the BB
when the SB limped and stood pat in a heads up pot! I
didn't draw one obviously, somehow connected, called a bet
and won!
[SB had a broadway!]

[onasis16]

great post

[Duffy333]

VN post bigpooch!! It's good for limit game. In Pot Limit you have to play more aggressiv. Try to explain. If you have freeplay in BB this mean, as for me, that limpers have something weak( pairs under JJ or draw) and your full bank bet will be expencive for them. But do this not often and never do this with callingstation. If somebody call your raise - change 3 to 2 higher cards. If reraise - fold.

[Grasshopp3r]

Just get better starting hands.

PokerStars Game #11173352136: 5 Card Draw No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/07/28 - 00:12:21 (ET)
Table 'Turais V' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Grasshopp3r ($30.25 in chips)
Seat 2: sticnyne ($20 in chips)
Seat 3: Robot 7 ($26 in chips)
Seat 4: tucuwalter ($23 in chips)
Seat 6: PokerJoeK ($20.60 in chips)
Grasshopp3r: posts small blind $0.25
sticnyne: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to Grasshopp3r [8h 8d Kh 8s 8c]
Robot 7: calls $0.50
tucuwalter: raises $2 to $2.50
PokerJoeK: folds
Grasshopp3r: raises $2.50 to $5
sticnyne: folds
Robot 7: folds
tucuwalter: calls $2.50
Grasshopp3r: discards 1 card [Kh]
Dealt to Grasshopp3r [8h 8d 8s 8c] [As]
tucuwalter: discards 1 card
Grasshopp3r: bets $5
septon joins the table at seat #5
tucuwalter: raises $8.50 to $13.50
Grasshopp3r: raises $11.75 to $25.25 and is all-in
tucuwalter: calls $4.50 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Grasshopp3r: shows [8h 8d As 8s 8c] (four of a kind, Eights)
tucuwalter: mucks hand
Grasshopp3r collected $45 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $47 | Rake $2
Seat 1: Grasshopp3r (small blind) showed [8h 8d As 8s 8c] and won ($45) with four of a kind, Eights
Seat 2: sticnyne (big blind) folded before the Draw
Seat 3: Robot 7 folded before the Draw
Seat 4: tucuwalter mucked [Qh Qs Th Qc Td]
Seat 6: PokerJoeK (button) folded before the Draw (didn't bet)