Haven't posted a hand in a while - J9o

bozlax · #1 10-17-2007, 03:44 PM

This was fun:

SB is sLAGgy, like 32/25/2.6.
UTG has only been at the table for a bit, but has played every hand he's been dealt, raised almost all of 'em pf, and likes to bet post.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, SB calls.

Iffy raise, but when the action met up to my limited reads I felt good about a raise for value as I can give myself a couple of outs for pairs.

Turn: (4.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

I don't feel great about checking, but I also dodn't want to risk paying two bets to draw if one of these guys decided to be tricky with a lone ace on the flop.

River: (7.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero ??

YAY! Hit my hand. Now what?

Xylocain · #2 10-17-2007, 03:55 PM

:g:

Flop is kinda iffy beeing OOP, I dont think you are winning without a K or an 8 and I dont think you have that much fold equity on this board.

Turn is good, I cant see betting the turn with SB still in the hand. If you get raised (very likely) he'll be blown out.

River should be a c/r because UTG is betting everytime and SB might be calling. UTG probably does not have KJ or a flopped two pair (given the bet call) and a flopped set is unlikely.

Daniel Magix · #3 10-17-2007, 03:56 PM

I said some of this on AIM, but I'll post anyway...

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, SB calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems ok. The value raise is borderline, as we discussed. But you justified it with your thought of implied odds being there. That's fine. I also think the raise gives you some key info that will help you later...

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: (4.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said earlier, I don't think this is that bad of a card for your hand. The info I believe you obtain on the flop, is that UTG does not have KJ, and not likely QT/AQ/TT. So this board pairing almost surely doesn't mean your straight will be drawing dead to the FH or higher straight. I suggested betting this. If you get two calls, then your bet is getting the same value as the flop. If it's raised and you end up HU, the pot size makes a call fine.

[ QUOTE ]
River: (7.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero ??

YAY! Hit my hand. Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet. Then feel remorse over the missed value bet on the turn and discuss it with a .02/04 newb. ldo

Daniel Magix · #4 10-17-2007, 03:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
River should be a c/r because UTG is betting everytime

[/ QUOTE ]

I did think of this, because the straight is well disguised and he has been betting every street. But seeing it checked through would be pretty awful.

scpi10 · #5 10-17-2007, 03:59 PM

grunch

go for the check raise. If you lead and he raises you might lose a bet from sb. C/R becasue you might get a call from sb after UTG bets. If UTG wasn't as aggressive I'd say bet the river instead.

Smurph64 · #6 10-17-2007, 04:49 PM

flop raise is spew unless you plan on trying to steal this but its a bad play especially 3 handed.

I would have check/raised the turn myself if I thought I could get the semi maniac to fold.

If a jack came you were meat so I don't know what outs you expected to have for pairs. You had 4 outs for a possible split with a K and 4 outs with an eight.

Check/raise on turn works only if you know that they can fold top pair, which for the most part is rare.

Personally I think you really have to think through semi bluffs before the flop if you have any hope of having them work.

This semibluff works best with a raise preflop followed by a c bet/call on the flop with a check/raise on the turn.

If you get called on your c bet you have the option of continuing on the turn but your line you are basically stuck and down to making the hand to win it.

Daniel Magix · #7 10-17-2007, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
flop raise is spew

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe a borderline value raise, but I don't think it's spew. He's accounting for 33% of the flop bets with this raise, and his OESD comes in just under 33%. So yeah, not an exceptional spot for the value-raise, but not so far off that ot's spewy.

And the information gained from UTG's reaction to the raise, helps make later decisions easier.

bozlax · #8 10-17-2007, 05:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
flop raise is spew unless you plan on trying to steal this but its a bad play especially 3 handed.

I would have check/raised the turn myself if I thought I could get the semi maniac to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

One, these two statements are completely inconsistent. In fact, this turn line is complete [censored], as SB will have already called one bet when it's back to you.

Two, you're either completely disregarding the reads, or taking an overly-narrow range in light of them, I'm not sure which.

Edit:

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I think you really have to think through semi bluffs before the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Three, you didn't read my comments, either? It's one thing to tell me that you don't think it's a value-raise, it's something completely different to read that I'm value-raising and decide I'm semi-bluffing.

Smurph64 · #9 10-17-2007, 07:07 PM

OK explain to me the purpose of the raise clearly so I don't assume anything on your motives.

You tie with a king about 1 in ten against these opponents according to Stoving it.

Against the range of the UTG and SB on the flop I estimate

25% equity.

I don't see a value raise here at all.

So with SB already calling one bet I just don't see value.

bozlax · #10 10-17-2007, 08:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You tie with a king about 1 in ten against these opponents according to Stoving it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Smurph, what ranges are you putting Villans on? If the answer is anything besides ATC, you're putting them on too tight a range.