The Mysterious Card Room Where No One Complains

[Rottersod]

I was sure that this was CP you were talking about Rick. As I read the story it confirmed everything I saw when I tried it out a while back and why I decided not to return. What should have given it away was the 35 cents per hand since there's no way this could be known for sure at a live table.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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I was sure that this was CP you were talking about Rick. As I read the story it confirmed everything I saw when I tried it out a while back and why I decided not to return. What should have given it away was the 35 cents per hand since there's no way this could be known for sure at a live table.

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In your second sentence above I'm not clear you are talking about the eRoom or CP. So I better ask before replying. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

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In my local room we usually only get 2 tables going and we will always play until closing with very few complaints from the players about playing short unless it gets down to 3 players... The house will usually consolidate the table to save on cost of paying the dealer.

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In a small, isolated local room I can imagine regulars who will play on knowing that their game isn't going to fill. They understand the two games will be kept as balanced as possible (by putting the occasional new player in the short game).

But my guess as to what usually happens is that once the tables get shorter than about seven handed the slide to the point where you can combine games happens very fast. This assumes low limits of course. At higher limits many players just love to play five-handed or even less. Of course in these games the rake/drop is far smaller in proportion to the action.

In LA, low limit players (outside of props and quasi-props) won't play short and for good reason. Although the amount of the drop is reduced somewhat, it often isn't reduced enough. Then a "modified drop" of $1 is taken even when there is no flop (more common of course in short games). Then a jackpot drop of one dollar is taken on any flop (note: in some clubs, the order of the taking of the jackpot drop and modified drop is reversed). Lastly, the full drop (usually $2 on a five handed game) is taken on any flop.

Finally, keep in mind what happened in the OP went beyond keeping games going short. They would take a full game and remove VIP Players aka quasi-props and have them start a new game of the same size and limit! If you were in the original game you ended up in a five or six handed game with the huge LA drop.

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

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All this really happened in the ePoker Room at Hollywood Park Casino.


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Figured it had to be that when you started talking about getting paid per hand.

It's the beginning of the B&M rakeback era. Or something.

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Try "or something".

An Internet player collection rakeback (usually 25 to 30% or so) isn't told by the cardroom to change tables or get up and help start another game. That said, this rakeback is pretty strong. If the game is ten handed (rare) and everyone collects (lately it seems this is very nearly true) the house is only generating 50 cents per hand or real revenue.

~ Rick

[RR]

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All this really happened in the ePoker Room at Hollywood Park Casino.


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Figured it had to be that when you started talking about getting paid per hand.

It's the beginning of the B&M rakeback era. Or something.

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Try "or something".

An Internet player collection rakeback (usually 25 to 30% or so) isn't told by the cardroom to change tables or get up and help start another game. That said, this rakeback is pretty strong. If the game is ten handed (rare) and everyone collects (lately it seems this is very nearly true) the house is only generating 50 cents per hand or real revenue.

~ Rick

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The ones that get 25 cents per hand do (they are called props, but all propping online means is they get roughly 100% rake back instead of 30% rake back).

[Rick Nebiolo]

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The ones that get 25 cents per hand do (they are called props, but all propping online means is they get roughly 100% rake back instead of 30% rake back).

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I understand the roll of online props and that the VIP players play a similar roll. Unfortunately in the eRoom they are used in a manner which ensures that the room won't grow. For example, online the casual player may not notice the props; in the eRoom it is immediately obvious something isn't "right" (e.g., when a player is approached by the floor and leaves an already short game to play in an even shorter game of the same type and limit).

Of course a normal B&M wouldn't pull a prop from an already short game, they would find another prop or let the other game go unless that other game was high priority (e.g., the prop might be pulled from one of three short 20/40 holdem games to save the only 20/40 stud game).

As an aside, if I ran an online room I'd find a way to pay a 35/15/2 (i.e., very loose, aggressive) prop a lot more than a 15/5/1.5 (very tight, moderately aggressive) prop just for generating the action. I never researched it in depth but I think some online rooms do something like this based on reading a couple posts by stoxtrader.

Anyway, in the eRoom there are a lot of high action props (sorry, I meant VIP Players). This will diminish over time of course as they go busted. But they make the same as the tight VIP Players. One VIP Player is so tight (love when he sits on my left, it's like getting two buttons every round!) that I think he actually averages more in rake back ($3.50 per round) than he puts into the pot per round!

~ Rick

[Phat Mack]

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- An extremely live player sits down on your table. He plays about an hour. Your game is six handed including the live player. The other game is five handed. He changes tables. Not one player at your table complains that the super live player changed from one short game to another (both tables are in plain view of each other and this isn't allowed in every club you have previouly played in).

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Why not? Before I read the entire thread, this room sounded like heaven. I'd like to point out that accommodating an extremely live player isn't the end of the world. In fact, it's good for poker. The same might be said for players who prefer shorthanded games. If these aren't must-move games (the wisdom of which is another thread), the live players should be allowed to sit where they please.

Maybe the VIP players were nits. If so, they must have had conflicting emotions: glad to see the last of the action player, but distressed at having to play shorthanded.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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- An extremely live player sits down on your table. He plays about an hour. Your game is six handed including the live player. The other game is five handed. He changes tables. Not one player at your table complains that the super live player changed from one short game to another (both tables are in plain view of each other and this isn't allowed in every club you have previouly played in).

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Why not? Before I read the entire thread, this room sounded like heaven. I'd like to point out that accommodating an extremely live player isn't the end of the world. In fact, it's good for poker. The same might be said for players who prefer shorthanded games. If these aren't must-move games (the wisdom of which is another thread), the live players should be allowed to sit where they please.[

Maybe the VIP players were nits. If so, they must have had conflicting emotions: glad to see the last of the action player, but distressed at having to play shorthanded.

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Note that LA has drop, not rake. Drop is taken in full on any flop regardless of pot size. If no flop $1 is still taken. That means a five handed NL game with 1/2 blinds will see $3 (this includes jackpot and it might actually be $4 at six handed) go down the hole on some very small pots.

Online you can play very small blind NL short; they use a percentage rake with a cap. I've never seen low limit players B&M players in LA willing to play short on a continuous basis (i.e. if they do they play with the expectation that the game will fill).

The VIP Players don't complain because they are told not to as part of receiving 35 cents a hand.

~ Rick

PS That said, the eTable games are occasionally very good and you can book decent wins. But it won't grow unless they keep games at least eight handed.

[Tuff_Fish]

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That said, the eTable games are occasionally very good and you can book decent wins. But it won't grow unless they keep games at least eight handed.

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The E-table games will grow much faster if they adjust the rake/drop to a lower level, especially on short tables.

My next road trip will be up to Hollywood Park to check the E-tables out. When is a good time to find several decent lowish limit NL games?

T

[RR]

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The E-table games will grow much faster if they adjust the rake/drop to a lower level, especially on short tables.

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There are legal issues with doing so. Basically my understanding is that the city would view lowering the drop as stealing tax dollars. I am sure Rick or somebody has a better understanding of these issues than I do.