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  #1  
Old 11-26-2007, 06:01 PM
NYTyler NYTyler is offline
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Default Top 2...facing two all-ins

No real reads here on Villain as I just came to the table recently.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($4.83)
SB ($6.11)
BB ($4.61)
UTG ($5.34)
UTG+1 ($5.54)
MP1 ($4.79)
MP2 ($10.57)
Hero ($3.38)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $0.1</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.10, Button calls $0.10, SB calls $0.09, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($0.42) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.21</font>, Button calls $0.21, SB calls $0.21, MP1 folds.

Turn: ($1.05) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $0.2</font>, Hero calls $0.20, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $4.52</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $5.8</font>, Hero?
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2007, 06:22 PM
ckj ckj is offline
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Default Re: Top 2...facing two all-ins

Call and hate myself I think. Probably up against A5 and 34.
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2007, 06:31 PM
ICMoney ICMoney is offline
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Default Re: Top 2...facing two all-ins

I wouldn't flat on the turn.

I would raise when it got to me.

The pot would be bigger and I would have no problem getting it in.

Here, your hand is underrepped. Get it in.
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  #4  
Old 11-26-2007, 06:53 PM
Draidin Draidin is offline
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Default Re: Top 2...facing two all-ins

Raise the Turn. You have the best hand no need to get fancy. Raise when in a multi-way pot. Anywhere from $.80 - $1.20 is good. Certainly call the all-ins.
Possible hands you are up against: Another 2 pair, AQ, AK, Ax, a straight with 3/4 in the hole, and maybe a set.
Looks like you are the favorite here. Call.
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  #5  
Old 11-26-2007, 06:55 PM
NYTyler NYTyler is offline
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Default Re: Top 2...facing two all-ins

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the Turn. You have the best hand no need to get fancy. Raise when in a multi-way pot. Anywhere from $.80 - $1.20 is good. Certainly call the all-ins.
Possible hands you are up against: Another 2 pair, AQ, AK, Ax, a straight with 3/4 in the hole, and maybe a set.
Looks like you are the favorite here. Call.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you think I am the favorite here...2 people pushed all-in ahead of me. Clearly I have to be looking at least one of them holding the straight.
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2007, 07:10 PM
youngmachetes youngmachetes is offline
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Default Re: Top 2...facing two all-ins

at NL5 i don't think i can fold without a good read. definitely raise/call the turn. i have never playd NL5 full ring, but i doubt the quality of play is any different than 6-max.
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  #7  
Old 11-26-2007, 07:12 PM
Draidin Draidin is offline
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Default Re: Top 2...facing two all-ins

yes it is poss that there is the wheel straight. but lots of players at this level will push here with Ax, A2 and A5.
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  #8  
Old 11-26-2007, 07:30 PM
z28dreams z28dreams is offline
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Default Re: Top 2...facing two all-ins

Probably beat, but you're getting almost 4:1 on your call here, and you still have 4 redraws to the boat.
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  #9  
Old 11-26-2007, 07:34 PM
Pokey Pokey is offline
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Default Re: Top 2...facing two all-ins

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the Turn. You have the best hand no need to get fancy. Raise when in a multi-way pot. Anywhere from $.80 - $1.20 is good. Certainly call the all-ins.
Possible hands you are up against: Another 2 pair, AQ, AK, Ax, a straight with 3/4 in the hole, and maybe a set.
Looks like you are the favorite here. Call.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you think I am the favorite here...2 people pushed all-in ahead of me. Clearly I have to be looking at least one of them holding the straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not afraid of the straight -- people don't often play 43 to a 5xBB raise preflop. You're worried about monsters under the bed, and you're right to do so, but you're worried about the WRONG monsters.

Worry about sets.

If you throw in 43 as a possibility you also have to throw in 52, because anybody playing 43 to a raise is also playing other crap. Against that range you're flipping a three-sided coin (it's an analogy; just go with it):

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Board: Jh 5d 2s Ac
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 32.411% 28.98% 03.43% 37828 4480.00 { AhJd }
Hand 1: 33.795% 29.92% 03.87% 39062 5052.00 { JJ+, 55, 22, AJs, A5s, A2s, 52s, 43s, AJo, A5o, A2o, 52o, 43o }
Hand 2: 33.795% 29.92% 03.87% 39062 5052.00 { JJ+, 55, 22, AJs, A5s, A2s, 52s, 43s, AJo, A5o, A2o, 52o, 43o }
</pre><hr />

If we take out 43 and also 52, things get much better for us:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Board: Jh 5d 2s Ac
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.729% 42.51% 07.22% 17568 2984.00 { AhJd }
Hand 1: 25.136% 21.43% 03.71% 8856 1532.00 { JJ+, 55, 22, AJs, A5s, A2s, AJo, A5o, A2o }
Hand 2: 25.136% 21.43% 03.71% 8856 1532.00 { JJ+, 55, 22, AJs, A5s, A2s, AJo, A5o, A2o }
</pre><hr />

In either case we're right to call.

You could also throw in some AK and AQ hands or some weird draws like 54, at which point things get even better for us.

It's actually hard to come up with viable ranges where you CAN'T call this raise. After all, you're getting 2.1-to-1 odds, which means you only have to win 32% of the time to be break-even. It's hard to put your opponents on a range where you don't win at least that often: if they're loose enough to play 43 they're loose enough to play lots of other hands that you're beating badly. If they're tight enough to take 43 out of their range then you're ahead of their likely holdings.
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2007, 08:00 PM
Briman51 Briman51 is offline
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Default Re: Top 2...facing two all-ins

It's so unlikely that any of them called a 5x bb raise with 34. I reckon you're mostly worried about the set, but most likely you're getting value from calling out the worse two pairs. SB definately feels like 2pair to me.
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