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  #11  
Old 11-25-2007, 11:05 PM
ImThatGood ImThatGood is offline
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Default Re: A river c/r bluff

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i like it and hate it at the same time [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

M2 the only call you will get is a winning one
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  #12  
Old 11-25-2007, 11:12 PM
Noam Chomsky Noam Chomsky is offline
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Default Re: A river c/r bluff

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i like it and hate it at the same time [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

M2 the only call you will get is a winning one

[/ QUOTE ]


hmm, I dunno, I think we might just get looked up by 53 here occasionally......

Op - I like it mainly because I don't think he has a whole lot a good % of the time
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  #13  
Old 11-26-2007, 01:00 PM
yad yad is offline
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Default Re: A river c/r bluff

thanks for all the replies. to respond to a few of them:

I thought villain has a draw here a huge amount (often a draw that hit that J on the turn). I don't think he even bets a T on the river (and if he does he folds to the c/r) and figured he'd probably fold a J as well.

FWIW if I got to the river this way with a monster hand I think leading is bad and would generally always c/r.

That said my range of hands that c/r this river for value but also flat call the flop and check the turn is not enormous. I'd do it with QQ+ sometimes, JJ and JT and J9 often, a lower set somewhat less often. I think all this is fairly standard -- so while villain can certainly imagine this being a bluff, he also knows it's quite plausible for me to have a strong hand here too.

will post results in a bit...will let the morning crowd comment if they want first.
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  #14  
Old 11-26-2007, 01:01 PM
sightless sightless is offline
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Default Re: A river c/r bluff

[ QUOTE ]
i can't see what you are representing


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats the problem I have with this hand. The more thinking the villain is the less i like this play
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2007, 01:04 PM
Delphi Delphi is offline
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Default Re: A river c/r bluff

[ QUOTE ]
... so while villain can certainly imagine this being a bluff, he also knows it's quite plausible for me to have a strong hand here too.

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Really? I don't see how u are repping a decent hand. On the other hand I wouldn't have the guts to call you with most possible villain holdings.
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  #16  
Old 11-26-2007, 01:11 PM
Paul Thomson Paul Thomson is offline
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Default Re: A river c/r bluff

i like it
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  #17  
Old 11-26-2007, 01:17 PM
Paul Thomson Paul Thomson is offline
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Default Re: A river c/r bluff

i guess i'll explain my thought process. i think the villain has a better missed draw alot or a mediocre hand by the river. the only possible monster i could see the villain having is 7c8c.

and is bet size on the river, screams for it to be raised off.

the question is whether of not he'll fold JQ. and i think he will enough to make it profitable.
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  #18  
Old 11-26-2007, 03:28 PM
HoldEmNewby HoldEmNewby is offline
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Default Re: A river c/r bluff

*grunch*

if villain is thinking he should call you pretty lightly. If the turn was a whiffed c/r then why didn't you lead the river (from villains perspective)? Do you have any read as to villains bluff sizing? What is your image? I can't hate on your play too much because given villains stats, and how he played the turn I think you're folding out a better busted flush draw often.
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  #19  
Old 11-26-2007, 04:30 PM
orange orange is offline
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Default Re: A river c/r bluff

i guess it depends alot of villan is any good.

we can generally take out sets from the equation- i think most any set will bomb the turn from your typicaly 19/17.

i think he either has a draw, a pair like AT, or air (air equaling alot of things like pairs turned bluff like 33, etc) from the flop bluff raise.

the river is fine, i think that it looks like he's trying to get some thin(ner?) value with maybe something like a bluff (think AJ or QJ).
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  #20  
Old 11-26-2007, 04:39 PM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Default Re: A river c/r bluff

Calling the flop seems bad. I'd rather 4-bet than call.
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