How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker

[that_pope]

Hey guys, not a strategy question, but I got the PJ approval, and medium stakes is the preferred audience since 95% of us play live...

So I have been going out with her for almost 4 years now, and we are finally moving in together middle of December when she gets back from Argentina. She knows I play poker often (probably estimates it at about 60% of what I really do), but if she asks how I did, I always say something about losing $100 or $200 or winning $100 or $200.

She doesn't approve of 'gambling' and while she knows I am a winning player, doesn't like that it adds nothing to society. If I win for a given session, it cheapens her work for the day. I do have a full time job, so that definately lessens the amount of pain there, but it is still there. If I lose for a given session, it is obviously bad as well.

So things are probably going to get serious, and I imagine I will propose in the next 6 months to a year if living together goes well. But before I propose, and probably shortly after she starts living with me, I would like to come clean with how much I can win/lose in a given night. I have all my sessions tracked in Excel for the past 3 years, and have shown a profit every year. I do have some large losses of like $4000+ and wins of the same magnitude that might scare her.

So I know I need to be honest with her, because her finding out from one of my friends who know my activity would be 10x worse (would probably occur on a night of drinking, which would make the fight even worse).

So whats the best way to go about this. I don't want to do it until after xmas and us getting used to living together. But that means I will need to hide my money even better then I do now.

Is coming straight out and explaining it to her that it is a great outlet for my competitive nature, I enjoy it as a hobby, and I make a nice side income from it as well.

Buying her stuff with poker winnings wouldn't convince her of it, since she isn't the material/gold digging type.

So any advice/experiences would be welcomed while I prep myself for the 'talk'. Another wrinkle in it is that I hate working 9 to 5, and she loves her line of work, so I could see eventually me being a stay at home dad who plays poker 20-30 hours a week to make an income as well.

I don't know if it would be a deal breaker if she puts her foot down and says I can't play that much, but it just might be...I enjoy it that much.

[SNOWBALL]

I hate to say it, but if she doesn't understand eventually then you are either really bad at explaining stuff, or she is just dumber than a sack of bricks. Every single intelligent person I have talked to about poker was able to understand it fairly quickly. The exception is if she really does have very deep rooted issues against gambling.

FWIW, it doesn't sound like she does. If she says "it's useless for society", it sounds like she is just expressing an opinion, and not like she is taking a life or death stand against gambling.

Also, if your poker BR is separate from your regular assets then it's none of her business if you set it in fire. She shouldn't care. Most winning players can lose their entire net worth and still be way way up in regards to poker. In other words, even if you were to go broke tomorrow, you wouldn't have a reason to regret playing poker in the past.

[private joker]

I'm really surprised you've been able to keep it from her for this long after 4 years. It seems like it would just sort of come out at some point before this.

I don't think I'm qualified to give too good an answer here because I'm not at all in the same situation -- not only does my girlfriend love the fact that I play poker, but she begs to sit behind me when I do and she's started playing 4/8, because she got into it so quickly. I've tried to dissuade her, but if she's gonna play no matter what I say, at least I try to teach her. She always asks how much I won or lost every night, and although that annoys me to no end, I oblige her -- and when it's a big win she says nice job, and when it's a big loss she says "that's ok, you'll win it all back and more because you're a winning player."

So that said, I'm of the opinion that you should come clean as soon as possible, and do it by showing a chart/graph of your winnings. Tell her that every year you've supplemented your income with poker and that the extra money will help the two of you in things like traveling, car payments, insurance, etc., and that you're investing some of your winnings in like a Roth IRA or some crap.

Next, try to get her over the hump of poker=gambling. Try, as patiently as possible, to explain that it's a game where skill trumps luck. It's a sport. Tell her the reason the same 10 guys keep popping up on TV final tables is the same reason the same 10 rednecks keep winning NASCAR races. You get good at it and you win consistently. Tell her if you made a deal where you flipped a coin with her and every time it came up heads you'd pay her a dollar but every time it came up tails she'd pay you a dollar-fifty. She would reply she doesn't like the sound of that, and you tell her that all poker is is putting opponents in a situation where they're forced to take that wager or give up the pot. Tell her these losing nights are the times the coin came up heads, but in the long run it came up tails enough times to pay me back more than my fair share. And that statistically it's impossible for the tails person to ever lose money in the long run.

If she can't digest logic like that, tell her that she shouldn't be worried that poker is all you do since you have a full time job. Remind her that she trusts you and loves you and that you wouldn't be messing around with this money if it was just some silly risk; you respect her and you respect the value of money too much for that. Remind her you never "gamble" with it -- you never play blackjack (you don't, right?), craps, or bet on sports. You don't take wagers where you have the worst of it. You're smart and you have months upon months of data to prove it.

If she can't accept that, then you're screwed. But I hope she's cool enough that she doesn't force you to choose between her and poker.

[that_pope]

Thanks for the good post PJ. I only 'gamble' when I go to Vegas, and that is 2-3 times a year, and the majority is still poker. The reason I have been able to 'keep' it from her is because I only started playing 20/40 regularly in June, and she left for Argentina in August. Before that, my main game was 8/16, in which I brought 600 or 800 to the casino, and a "win or loss" of 100 or 200 was a lot closer to realistic. With my shots at 40/80 and 30/60 in Vegas, the thousands are a lot more realistic, and when an average day at a real job is 200-300 for both of us, it will appear excessive. I have no doubts she will accept that I am a winning player, I don't think I put enough emphasis on the 'gambling' productive part of society part of the equation. When I bitch about not enjoying going to work every day, she jokingly tells me to quit and play poker, but I know it is a bluff, and decline and appease her everyime.

[mike l.]

if winning or losing $100-200 is a deal breaker for you or her than you have no sort of relationship worth taking seriously in the first place.

[James.]

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if winning or losing $100-200 is a deal breaker for you or her than you have no sort of relationship worth taking seriously in the first place.

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i don't know if this is as much the case as sometimes people just aren't compatible.

my personal opinion, you need to sack up and come clean pronto. do it BEFORE you guys move in, as that will just make the situation more difficult when it comes to a head. i'm 32, but i've known alot of women in my days and there is one common characteristic that most any female of reasonable intelligence, self-esteem, and self-respect has in common: they hate to be lied to. i think if you sit down with her, explain the situation, and deal with it in a straightforward honest manner you are going to come out ahead in the long run. let here make the decision for herself whether or not she wants to be with you. hiding the truth from her is going to set a precedent that could infiltrate the core of your relationship and make here skeptical about EVERYTHING you say. in other words she won't be able to trust you, and a relationship without trust isn't a relationship worth having anyway.

sit her down(or take her to a really nice dinner), and ease here into the fact that you deal with more dollar volume than you have indicated to her in the past. a little tip, if you don't have a problem with white lies(which given your situation you don't seem to [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) tell here that you've recently began playing higher stakes or something. even doing this is dangerous, however, because as i said before females cherish trust(rightly so IMO) in a serious relationship above most anything else. if she finds out you weren't completely truthful with her, it could cause some serious damage later.

if you really care for her, do what's best for you both. come clean. if she gives you an ultimatum you have a decision to make. if she's someone you plan on making your wife, examine your priorities. if your own needs/wants are more important to your fulfillment than she is, then it eventually wasn't going to work anyway. plus, she might surprise you. you never know. good luck.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]
if she gives you an ultimatum you have a decision to make. if she's someone you plan on making your wife, examine your priorities. if your own needs/wants are more important to your fulfillment than she is, then it eventually wasn't going to work anyway. plus, she might surprise you.

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It works both ways. If she gives pope an ultimatum then it shows that her petty prejudices are more important to her than he is, and it wasn't going to work anyway.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if she gives you an ultimatum you have a decision to make. if she's someone you plan on making your wife, examine your priorities. if your own needs/wants are more important to your fulfillment than she is, then it eventually wasn't going to work anyway. plus, she might surprise you.

[/ QUOTE ]

It works both ways. If she gives pope an ultimatum then it shows that her petty prejudices are more important to her than he is, and it wasn't going to work anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't really how things work man. Sometimes people are confused and need time to sort it out. We all have flaws and any lasting relationship with have to overcome challenges and both will need to compromise.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if she gives you an ultimatum you have a decision to make. if she's someone you plan on making your wife, examine your priorities. if your own needs/wants are more important to your fulfillment than she is, then it eventually wasn't going to work anyway. plus, she might surprise you.

[/ QUOTE ]

It works both ways. If she gives pope an ultimatum then it shows that her petty prejudices are more important to her than he is, and it wasn't going to work anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree. however, i don't know her, but from what pope has stated he said that he didn't know how he would handle an ultimatum. after all, he is the one that has been deceitful. so i would think that's probably a bigger part of the equation than her prejudices on a particular subject. and just because someone is ignorant doesn't mean they are petty. they are just misinformed/uninformed. hopefully pope can speak with her in a diplomatic manner and help her see the light. if not, as you(and i) said it wasn't going to work very long anyway.

the key is: talk to her about it before you go any further in the relationship. if it doesn't work out, don't do it again in the future. learn from the mistake and grow as a person. that's all anyone can do or ask for in these types of unfortunate situations.

keep in mind, if this thing's going to work there's a decent chance she'll surprise you with understanding. if she doesn't understand/accept it then it's likely a matter of time anyway...

[DUI]

you tell her yourself (directly) about what it is that you do and how you play, also why you play as well as the benefits you receive from playing. Show her this the person you are, and explain to her by explaining how different she is by participating in her own activites that she likes to involve herself into. She will either understand what you do if you can show how you are playing your game to best win over a long haul. If she cannot see that, there is not much that you two can do to be happy and share the same future together without a fight by the issue coming between the two of you