Tough spot with QQ. 4-8 Live

loveminuszero · #1 06-30-2007, 05:01 PM

Reads:I have only been at the table for 2 rotations, but both times I was in the BB I played a hand with villain. In previous 2 hands, he beat me both times when I first bet the flop with Q8 (got a free look at the flop) on QJJ board and then check-called the river, he showed J9 and won. Second hand, he called me down when my K5 (free look from big blind) got outkicked on a K369Q by his K8.

From the two hands I've seen him beat me with, he's seemed like a good player. However, I also saw him bet into a dry side pot with king high on the turn. Other than that he seems loose-passive.

Hand:One EP limper, I raise to 8 with

Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Button, both blinds and the early position limper call.

5 players ($40) to the flop:

7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB (villain), BB and EP check.

I bet, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't, but critique on all streets is welcome.

Button calls. Villain I discussed earlier in the SB now raises and the BB and EP fold.

Should I have now:

a) folded, it's a scary flop and he might have two pair or a set

b) called and looked for a turn that doesn't fill a straight or a flush and try to make him pay if he's drawing

or c) three bet my overpair?

Results to come.

raphet99 · #2 06-30-2007, 05:07 PM

I'd probably just call it down from here. He could be raising a better hand, but could also be raising with a pair and a flush or strait draw...I would (but usually in position, not from SB). Depends on the turn if I stay to river or what. Even if a draw comes in, it is probably a good card for your hand and gives you more outs to the best hand.

Niediam · #3 06-30-2007, 05:18 PM

Folding would be terrible.

The question is if you raise now or do you wait for a the turn (assuming a horrible card doesn't fall). I lean in this situation to raise now because you lose a bet if a card falls on the turn that villian doesn't like (and I can see a ton of these such as 9, T, 6, spade, A, K...) and he just checks. If the board wasn't so coordinated I'd be more likely to wait.

talking toaster · #4 06-30-2007, 06:23 PM

Lots of beatable hands are possible there. I would 3-bet, and call down if it's 4-bet. You'll also be making the button pay more.

loveminuszero · #5 06-30-2007, 07:24 PM

OK.

I 3-bet, the SB 4-bet (by now I am pretty sure I'm beat facing a check-raise and a 4 bet, but I have to call.) The button called all bets. 3 to the turn, $88 in the pot:

The river is the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Therefore the board is: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB leads out.

Fold, call, or raise?

jjshabado · #6 06-30-2007, 07:32 PM

That doesn't improve your hand (unless your opponent has exactly 98). You're getting 10:1, you're unlikely to improve on the river, and you're likely facing at least one big bet. Button may still draw out even if you're ahead of SB.

Seems like an easy fold to me, assuming your read is that you're beat here more often then you have odds to call to showdown.

loveminuszero · #7 06-30-2007, 08:05 PM

I'm getting 12:1 not 10:1 if it makes a difference

jjshabado · #8 06-30-2007, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm getting 12:1 not 10:1 if it makes a difference

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. These situations seem to me to be pretty read dependent. If your opponent is somebody who you feel overplays hands (like say A9 in this situation) I'd call down. Against unknowns I think I'd fold. I don't want to pay at least 2 BB to see showdown, especially when you've got a 3rd player hanging around.

loveminuszero · #9 06-30-2007, 08:53 PM

Is there any value in the fact that we know the button is basically playing with his cards turned face up and has a draw?

jjshabado · #10 06-30-2007, 09:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any value in the fact that we know the button is basically playing with his cards turned face up and has a draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but we don't really know what draw. Or if he's slow playing something else. But if you think you're ahead of the better 20% of the time, and the draw (whatever it is) comes in 20% of the time its equivalent to you winning the pot only 16% of the time. I'm just saying in a marginal situation like this, it shifts you along the action spectrum towards a fold and away from a call.

What do you do if a Spade or straight card come on the river and SB bets? Do you call knowing button might raise? Too many things say you should fold here I think.