Being stacked 175 BB deep with just a pair

villains_hero · #1 10-13-2007, 06:53 PM

As I dont play much NL I'm not comfortable with deep stacks (I'm not comfortable with the game at all). I made this one become very big but was lost sizing my postflopaction. Shall I push on the turn? Or check? And I didnt know what to do on the river.

Villain is like 40/10/1,2, not bluffy, paying for too many showdowns. He has trouble getting away from his beat TPs. I saw him go broke once with TP, but that was 100BB deep. After the flop action I excluded T8 and put him on a single T.

NL 2/4 6-handed

UTG ( $738.1 ) limps, Hero ( $769.26 ) raises $20 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], SB ( $1207.33 ) calls.

Flop 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($62)

SB bets $45, UTG calls, Hero raises $192, SB folds, UTG calls.

Turn 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($491)

UTG checks, hero bets ($233), UTG calls.

River 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($957)

UTG goes All-in $293.1, Hero?

justin · #2 10-14-2007, 06:40 AM

If you raise flop you gotta push turn. Checking turn doesnt seem like an option cause pots to big already and your gonna be faced with a real tough river bet against a real large range

WCGRider · #3 10-14-2007, 11:42 AM

Meh, because of the odds and the fact he overvalues TP you have to call here. But im not happy.

I think a turn check for pot control isnt a bad idea.

Alobar · #4 10-14-2007, 02:47 PM

I would shove the turn, there is no reason not to. Hes basically got a PSB left so you cant really do any pot control and your read is hell likely call with plenty of hands he shouldnt be.

Is this flop raise super standard? I have problems in this spot knowing what to do when Im deepstacked when someone donks like this into 2 people after calling a raise from the SB on a board like this.

oh, also I call this river bet. Im not excited about it, but you are getting 4-1 and it could be a last ditch bluff/valuebet by KT or JJ or something and I dont like to fold with decent odds against poor players cuz you never know what they will turn over.

Man of Means · #5 10-14-2007, 06:26 PM

Once he checks the turn, you can just go all-in - it's roughly a pot-sized bet. If you bet smaller all the money's going in on the river if he hits. How do you feel about that?

villains_hero · #6 10-14-2007, 06:45 PM

Yeah, I can see it now. Thx. Hopefully this seems obvious to me next time.

Should I not raise the flop? I did so to make it heads up against villain and to make him pay as much as possible (how could I know I would chicken away from this plan on the turn).

[ QUOTE ]
If you bet smaller all the money's going in on the river if he hits. How do you feel about that?

[/ QUOTE ]
T6s [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Man of Means · #7 10-14-2007, 11:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Should I not raise the flop? I did so to make it heads up against villain and to make him pay as much as possible (how could I know I would chicken away from this plan on the turn).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if your read says villain will go down in flames with a weaker hand, then raise the flop with the intent (PLAN!) to get it all-in on the turn. If the stack size prevents this from possibly happening then you may choose to call the flop and either raise the turn if it looks good or "chicken out" (by way of a fold or pot control).

The thing about betting small on the turn is that is actually more bold and risky than pushing. While it may be easier for him to call smaller amounts twice with a 10, you are giving him a better price to get the pot AND your remaining stack.

UATrewqaz · #8 10-15-2007, 05:27 PM

I'm a noob NL player but if you read the newest 2+2 NL book Professional NL Hold Em V1 the key they make is "PLAN YOUR HANDS"

Aka you know your stack size and you gotta know when youa re committed to a hand.

When you raise on the flop you are basically committed to the hand. The pot almost equals your remaining stack. You have to know this when making your flop raise.

Looking back I'd think this means raising slightly more on the flop and then pushing the turn regardless.

kapw7 · #9 10-16-2007, 08:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]

T6s [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I could swear he had 67. Donkeys are so unpredictable.
I think you should check this turn card and probably fold to a big river bet

Man of Means · #10 10-16-2007, 11:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I could swear he had 67. Donkeys are so unpredictable.
I think you should check this turn card and probably fold to a big river bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking the turn with the best one pair hand is for pot control but the pot is already out of control! The only other reason you'd check is because you so sure you're ahead and want to induce a bluff to make more $ instead of inducing a fold. Neither of these applies, the board is drawy and villain is a loose fish.