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#41
11-18-2007, 06:50 PM
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Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
[ QUOTE ]
David, im not really sure how super high stakes games work. when i played 500-1k nl/plo game at bobbys room this summer, it was capped at 7 people. most of the other higher stakes live games i have played start off 10 handed, but then eventually break down to a few of the better players playing short, then everyone quitting saying 'this stupid kid keeps reraising, hes so bad.' in a full ring 10 handed setting, i think Tran is generally right here, but saying not 1 of the top 20.. i mean cmon. most of us 'online' players dont know how to fold KK pf. it is the second best hand after all. Most of us DO seem to be able to adjust though but god forbid we do, they kick us out of the game because we play 'too tight' and dont give 'enough action'. apparently the 'live players' want it both ways. tons of idiot fish that play too many hands and play them bad. MY guess is tran played online a little bit at higher stakes games (50-1+) and got crushed short handed. i dont know enough about his game to even comment with any authority, so this is speculation, but i would venture to guess that he tried to run a bunch of bluffs like he would in a live game against the nitty people that fold a lot and got snap looked up by 3rd pair more than once, and got frustrated. A lot of the high stakes online regs just have a ton more experience in playing short handed, as thats really the only sort of games that get off the ground. For him to say that not one of the top 20 high stakes NL players is considered an online player is just absolutely ridiculous. I would take me, durr, z, hac, (urindanger and his bro) phil (jman) and whichever 4 guys he picks in a 10 handed game all day. The best thing about this, is we could actually set it up, and all from our side would be very interested in playing. [/ QUOTE ] such a great post...this forum needs so much of this 
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#42
11-18-2007, 06:52 PM
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Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
[ QUOTE ]
Also, when he said, they can't lay down a hand, he meant in live games where he considered it a mistake. He told me about a hand where his well known internet opponent could have saved tens of thousands of dolllars if he would have made what Kenny considered the obvious play of folding two kings preflop. I guess that fold is never made in internet games. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is a pretty weak argument that online players aren't capable of making ridiculous folds with the second nuts, when few people are live or online. I don't think it's a leak if once in a blue moon you get involved in a hand where you get coolered but "might" have been able to get away, like the hand where Negreanu lost with a boat to quads vs Hansen on HSP. Kenny is naive to internet players, most top high stakes online players play 6max primarily, and almost all their play is online. I think Kenny should try his hand at online hsnl before he makes comments like this with little basis.
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#43
11-18-2007, 06:52 PM
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Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
Three points:
It's probable that the internet players Tran has played with are not the very best internet players. I doubt he's played with durrr, bld, or cts, for example. His idea of an internet player might be someone like Thomas Wahlroos. The main problem with internet vs live discussions is that online players have a much larger sample size and are better able to assess skill statistically, while live players by necessity have to rely on anecdotal or statistically insignificant evidence for claims of superiority or inferiority. On the other hand, long-run results aren't the only determinant of skill; experienced live players can probably much more quickly (in terms of number of hands) determine what an opponent's strategy is, and identify holes in it. This advantage still is affected by the much smaller sample size, although not as much. David, this thread would be much more successful if posted in hsnl. The online players most capable of discussing this do not post much in nvg!
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#44
11-18-2007, 06:56 PM
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Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
[ QUOTE ]
I sure hope it's not 100k hands live. How many years would that take? [/ QUOTE ] Long enough that if a teenage girl was involved in the game, Sklansky would no longer be interested in her when the 100k hands were up.
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#45
11-18-2007, 06:57 PM
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Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
[ QUOTE ]
David, im not really sure how super high stakes games work. when i played 500-1k nl/plo game at bobbys room this summer, it was capped at 7 people. most of the other higher stakes live games i have played start off 10 handed, but then eventually break down to a few of the better players playing short, then everyone quitting saying 'this stupid kid keeps reraising, hes so bad.' in a full ring 10 handed setting, i think Tran is generally right here, but saying not 1 of the top 20.. i mean cmon. most of us 'online' players dont know how to fold KK pf. it is the second best hand after all. Most of us DO seem to be able to adjust though but god forbid we do, they kick us out of the game because we play 'too tight' and dont give 'enough action'. apparently the 'live players' want it both ways. tons of idiot fish that play too many hands and play them bad. MY guess is tran played online a little bit at higher stakes games (50-1+) and got crushed short handed. i dont know enough about his game to even comment with any authority, so this is speculation, but i would venture to guess that he tried to run a bunch of bluffs like he would in a live game against the nitty people that fold a lot and got snap looked up by 3rd pair more than once, and got frustrated. A lot of the high stakes online regs just have a ton more experience in playing short handed, as thats really the only sort of games that get off the ground. For him to say that not one of the top 20 high stakes NL players is considered an online player is just absolutely ridiculous. I would take me, durr, z, hac, (urindanger and his bro) phil (jman) and whichever 4 guys he picks in a 10 handed game all day, and OH MY GOD if the game was short handed.. The best thing about this, is we could actually set it up, and everyone from our side would be very interested in playing. [/ QUOTE ] QFT the only thing that seems to be preventing us internet kids from crushing the biggest live games is that we can't get invited to them.
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#46
11-18-2007, 06:57 PM
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Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
LOL at Kenny saying not knowing how to lay down a hand.
He calls more bets then any1 ive seen.
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#47
11-18-2007, 06:58 PM
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Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
I agree with Tran that online players have trouble folding and that's probably due to the inherent nature of the game being different online from the live game. He's probably exaggerating though about none of the top 20 players being online ones though.
The online game seems to encourage the "no fold" tendency. The weird thing though is so many people playing live also play online that this tendency may be spreading. Someone in this thread said onliners always disparage live players and vice versa and I've observed this to be true, but poker players are poker players so I think the disparagement is kind of narrowminded and misses the fact you are comparing apples to oranges. The live and online games are different so its just group pride talking.
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#49
11-18-2007, 07:07 PM
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Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If there are specific players who you are curious as to where he ranks them, you can ask me and I'll ask him. [/ QUOTE ] Brian Townsend LDO Ask him if he knows who Tom Dwan is. [/ QUOTE ] He specifically said Brian was not in the top 20. I think he also said durr but I can't remember for sure. He also didn't necessarily mean that it was only that one non folding type error that caused him to have that opinion. If someone wants to move this thread to another forum, fine. I am out of it except that you guys might want to create a list of players, PM me with the list, and I will ask Kenny if he included them when forming his opinion.
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#50
11-18-2007, 07:08 PM
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Re: How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players
[ QUOTE ]
MY guess is tran played online a little bit at higher stakes games (50-1+) and got crushed short handed. i dont know enough about his game to even comment with any authority, so this is speculation, but i would venture to guess that he tried to run a bunch of bluffs like he would in a live game against the nitty people that fold a lot and got snap looked up by 3rd pair more than once, and got frustrated. A lot of the high stakes online regs just have a ton more experience in playing short handed, as thats really the only sort of games that get off the ground. For him to say that not one of the top 20 high stakes NL players is considered an online player is just absolutely ridiculous. I would take me, durr, z, hac, (urindanger and his bro) phil (jman) and whichever 4 guys he picks in a 10 handed game all day, and OH MY GOD if the game was short handed.. The best thing about this, is we could actually set it up, and everyone from our side would be very interested in playing. [/ QUOTE ] Raptor - if this were to go down, would you be willing to do this if it was only live play?
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