Zeitgeist part I - "The Greatest Story Ever Told" (Christianity,et al)

[Nielsio]

Why did you post that?

[Sephus]

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Why did you post that?

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reflex.

[Case Closed]

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Why did you post that?

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reflex.

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Yeah, i still don't get it.

[Sephus]

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Why did you post that?

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reflex.

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Yeah, i still don't get it.

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ugh. it wouldn't have been such a lame joke if it were just the one post. i should have known better.

the picture is of a rapper who goes by ludacris. when someone spells "ludicrous" that particular way, i like to point it out. that's funny to me. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Mempho]

So, why does Zeitgeist try to invalidate Christianity in Part I and then try to validate all of its prophecies in Part IV?

I want you non-believers to follow me real quick in this. I'm not trying to convert anyone or prove that this actually exists. I just want to bring up a greater question.

It's ridiculous in this. It divides the world down into ten supranational governmental entities like the European Union and then brings about a one-world government.

This is an exact plagirism of the the prophecies of Daniel:

From Daniel 7:

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23 "He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time. [a]

26 " 'But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.'

28 "This is the end of the matter. I, Daniel, was deeply troubled by my thoughts, and my face turned pale, but I kept the matter to myself."

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Further, this is Revelation 17:12

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12"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

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Clearly, the Bible is stating that ten kingdoms will be formed and those ten will be only short-lived before the power is given to the beast (the Antichrist), the leader of the world government. Further, the AC comes as a prince of peace that is actually a prince of terror.

Zeitgeist covers "the plan" exactly in this manner.

Further, the film moves into the chip implant required to participate in the one-world economy.


Here we go again, in Revelation 13:

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11Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

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The text is originally Greek and it was written by John on the isle of Patmos. The Greek word used for "mark" actually means "in". Further, the new "branding name" for the Verichip....what else but the X-Mark. Creepy.

OK, these are just two prophecies, but almost everything in the movie either is periphery to or an exact match for a Biblical prophecy. (Feel free to name one of your choosing ).


Alright, so here's the hypothetical question:

If we are to take Neilso and Zeitgeist at face value in Part IV, then Chrisitianity is either a 2,000+ year old fraud that was meant to be a control mechanism with "an out" for population control/reduction at a time when it might be needed (say when certain elites think the planet's getting overpopulated) OR Christianity is true and the elite money is used to finance work that undermines the faith of many.

The worst part of Zeitgeist is that it's primary thesis is not even put together by the end of the film. The producer
completely ignored this and did not bother to tell us why all of the prophecies in the film mirrored the Bible almost exactly. The is one huge thing to overlook in a film that attempts to undermine Christianity and then seemingly attempts to verify it. The producers don't tell us much about what the end game or the motive is for these supposed "elites."

If you're going to believe in the Zeitgeist conspiracy, then you have to put all the chips on the table and play a cosmic guessing game...where the wrong choice will either cost you your life or your soul. (If a Christian chooses wrong, he dies...if an atheist chooses wrong, he gets hell.) If the atheist was right, the Christian would be pissed (but he won't exist to know it) and if the Christian is right, then the atheist is going to have forever to dwell on that mistake).

I'm not telling anyone to believe this, FWIW. I think the film is interesting to watch, but it's got more than a few issues with it...(JFK speech is a totally out of context, BTW).

[madnak]

I admit that, despite being an atheist, I find certain sections of Revelations chilling. It's not alone in that regard, many myths creep me out based on how they appear to apply to the modern day. The RFID thing does take the cake for being eeriest - I have huge issues with the chips based on my personal value system, so I may be biased.

[furyshade]

i think the reason the revelations prophecies are so "chilling" is because history repeats itself, whether it be the roman occupation of the jerusalem, Nero's oppressive reign, the final battle at armageddon (a historic site in israel which has held more recorded battles than any other place in the ancient world), all of it has already happened. the rest of it has logical, historical explanations but they aren't coming to mind.

[luckyme]

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i think the reason the revelations prophecies are so "chilling" is because history repeats itself, whether it be the roman occupation of the jerusalem, Nero's oppressive reign, the final battle at armageddon (a historic site in israel which has held more recorded battles than any other place in the ancient world), all of it has already happened. the rest of it has logical, historical explanations but they aren't coming to mind.

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You mean Macbeth didn't really happen?

luckyme

[Mempho]

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I admit that, despite being an atheist, I find certain sections of Revelations chilling. It's not alone in that regard, many myths creep me out based on how they appear to apply to the modern day. The RFID thing does take the cake for being eeriest - I have huge issues with the chips based on my personal value system, so I may be biased.

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Revelation is absolutely chilling. While the end game is good (evil is defeated), the stuff that happens in between is absolutely terrifying. I find it strange that some "root" for the Apocalypse without reservation. I can agree with wanting humanity to know absolute truth and for evil to be defeated, but that's about it.

From a Christian perspective, the only thing I can say that would be good about it would be that, if it verifies, it may give a lot of people the "proof" they desire and let them make a definative choice.

To an atheist, I would say this:

You should know Revelation just in case. That's the problem I have with Zeitgeist. I find it nearly impossible to believe that the producer believes in this vast conspiracy while, at the same time believing that Christianity cannot possibly be true.

Why?

He's basing his evidence against Christianity (by drawing illogical conclusions, I might add) on substandard evidence that has been kept and possessed by the very same elite he believes are deceiving us now.

If you're going to believe in a conspiracy that vast and evil, why would you not at least give Christianity a second glance? If you believe that everything we've been taught is a lie, on what basis would you throw out Christianity? You have to essentially throw out everything as a potential "conspiracy."

He believes that the family, the American dream,etc., are being corrupted and watered down. Why is Christianity immune?

All he says in the last part is that Christianity is a Zeitgeist used for control.

My final question:

If you have a religion that lots of people believe, why would you purposefully fulfill the prophecies in the book and make yourself out to be in league with the Satan that you have everybody believing in?

This is a good way to have the "servants" that are making you money go to war with you. I mean, why would you do it.

If I could put on an athestic hat, I could only provide a couple of reasons:

1) Population Control- You think the world is becoming overpopulated. You think the environment, food supply, etc., all depend on a lower population. You use the "mark of the beast" and enforce noncompliance with death. You kill off untold millions upon millions of people (maybe even billions).

2) Perverse Desire- You have a "God" complex (ala Hitler) and desire to be "worshipped" yourself. You can't be worshipped unless you "overthrow" the Christian mythos and prove to everyone that it's simply UNTRUE. Once no savior appears, once Christ or Mohammed or Allah don't show up, then you are, essentially, the closest that a human can come to being God.

3) The only third one I can come up with is that you believe that Satan is the true god that gives freedom to mankind (i.e., you're a Satan worshipper). You may believe that Christianity is partially or entirely a myth, or you may believe it's all true except for how the story ends.

That's all I can come up with. Any other answers, anyone?

Paging Nielso...please explain because I'm fascinated with your thoughts. Not trying to trap you or anything. Just interested in your thoughts.

[Mempho]

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i think the reason the revelations prophecies are so "chilling" is because history repeats itself, whether it be the roman occupation of the jerusalem, Nero's oppressive reign, the final battle at armageddon (a historic site in israel which has held more recorded battles than any other place in the ancient world), all of it has already happened. the rest of it has logical, historical explanations but they aren't coming to mind.

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There are a lot of Christians that believe that most of Revelation already occurred with respect to the reign of Nero. They (generally) believe that Christ is yet to come.

These are called partial preterists. Full preterists (or just preterists) believe that Christ has already returned. I have explored both and remain undecided due to the complexity of overlaying the text with history.