2008 National Champions (NCAAF)

[Terrabon98]

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For all those on the Michigan bandwagon, don't forget that Lloyd Carr is still head coach.

In the last 6 seasons his record against OSU and Bowl opponents is 2-10. In Carr's last 17 non-conference games against teams from BCS conferences and ND, he is 6-11.

It doesn't matter how much talent UM returns, as long as coach Carr is on the sidelines, don't include us in the NC discussion.

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Carr haters crack me up. Like somehow he has nothing to do with them being a great team, but when they lose some big games it's all his fault.

Nebraska - won't quite be a top 5 team next year, probably top 10

West Virginia - will be sick with Slayton and White both back. The winner of their game with Louisville will be playing for the national title IMO.

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The concern isn't so much that Carr isn't able to beat teams, but rather that he cannot win BIG games against tough opponents. He still has a decent record against top 5 and top 10 teams b/c of his first five or six years, but over the last five years, he does not have a stellar record.

After the USC game, one of the USC players said something along the lines of "We knew every single play they were going to run. It was like we could predict everything before it happened. They always just try to rely on having better players".

Unfortunately, this is true, and while Michigan have better players than 90% of the teams they play, they always run into trouble and many times look awful against teams that have as much talent as them (OSU, USC, Texas, etc.) The problem is, these teams have just as much talent as them, along with great coaches, and it's usually not too difficult to adjust and find ways to win.

I can't say that I disagree with Carr haters, and I do believe that with the super-conservative, locked-down playbook he utilizes, as well as his lack of being able to make adjustments, Michigan won't win a national championship next year, or probably anytime soon...

There's a reason people consider us one of the most overrated teams every year. We have the talent to back it up, we simply don't utilize ours as well as many other teams utilize theirs.

[teamdonkey]

Terrabon - i'll take a coach who can consistantly put a great team on the field but isn't a good playcaller over the opposite any day. Noone is more responsible for the quality of their football team than a college head coach. The fact that Michigan can beat 75% of their opponents by just relying on having better players means Carr is doing a hell of a job.

People used to say Tom Osborne couldn't get it done with his antiquated offense and predictable playcalling to. Don't be so quick to criticize someone who has kept your program at an elite level for so long.

[JackWhite]

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Carr haters crack me up. Like somehow he has nothing to do with them being a great team, but when they lose some big games it's all his fault.




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Carr defenders crack me up. Let me repeat that stat in case you missed it. In our last 12 games against OSU and in bowls, we are 2-10. And you don't undertand why some of us don't think he is a good coach?

Do you ever watch UM play? Do you ever see anything remotely innovative? A trick play? Anything to confuse the other team? As others have pointed out, USC defenders were laughing at us after the game because we are so predictable.

When we play any team with equal of more talent, we lose. You say Carr should get a lot of credit for wins. Sure, we beat teams we are supposed to beat most of the time. Not sure why that deserves praise. Should I really send Lloyd Carr roses for beating teams like Ball St, Indiana, Minnesota etc??? We have a team loaded with future NFL players. Shouldn't we beat those teams? All we ask is that we occasionally use that talent to beat OSU or win a bowl game. Not too much to ask in my opinion.

[jbrent33]

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West Virginia - will be sick with Slayton and White both back. The winner of their game with Louisville will be playing for the national title IMO.

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This would be a complete joke. I will bet you $500 right now if West Virginia or Lousiville play any SEC team in a bowl game, I'll take the SEC team and spot you 3 points.

[Dudd]

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West Virginia - will be sick with Slayton and White both back. The winner of their game with Louisville will be playing for the national title IMO.

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This would be a complete joke. I will bet you $500 right now if West Virginia or Lousiville play any SEC team in a bowl game, I'll take the SEC team and spot you 3 points.

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You do know as of before the bowls, the Sagarin rankings, the most accurate predictive model, shows Louisville as a minimum 4.5 pt favorite over any team in the SEC?

[Terrabon98]

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The fact that Michigan can beat 75% of their opponents by just relying on having better players means Carr is doing a hell of a job.

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No it does not mean that at all. You could argue that he is a great recruiter, which he isn't really, but I don't see how you can logically believe that a coach is good because he can beat teams with less talent, and lose to teams with more talent. Obviously he has the occassional win against other great teams, but that can easily be counter-balanced by the losses he has against sub-par teams.

Let me ask you a question. Look at Michigan's track record in big games over the last five years. They are something like 2-11 or something similarly atrocious. Do you really think that Michigan had less talent in any of those games? Maybe a couple at the most, but I can't imagine more than a few. They lose because they get outcoached. So why is Carr a "great coach" when he cannot beat teams with equal talent? Seems to me that's the sign of a pretty poor coach.

An aside...I am not a disgruntled fan who is yelling for Carr's head after the USC and OSU games. I have been saying for years that while he will consistently win us 8-10 games per season, he will very rarely, if ever, be able to get us to achieve to our potential, like some great coaches around the country are able to do.

[teamdonkey]

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I don't see how you can logically believe that a coach is good because he can beat teams with less talent

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you're still missing my point. The fact that he builds these enormously talented teams makes him a great coach.

Michigan stat guys: i was under the impression Carr had a poor record against specific opponents, but overall his top10/top20 record was pretty respectable. Am i wrong about that?

[Terrabon98]

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I don't see how you can logically believe that a coach is good because he can beat teams with less talent

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you're still missing my point. The fact that he builds these enormously talented teams makes him a great coach.

Michigan stat guys: i was under the impression Carr had a poor record against specific opponents, but overall his top10/top20 record was pretty respectable. Am i wrong about that?

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I didn't miss your point. My point is that it's not really all that hard to build an enormously talented tea at Michigan, because they consistently are infused with top players. They always had great talent before Lloyd was there, and they will continue to long after he's gone. So while Carr certainly deserves some credit for translating that talent into wins on the field, I don't think it's fair to call him a great coach because of it. It's something that most halfway decent coaches who have been around should be able to do with that type of skill.

I don't completely disagree with you though, he is very consistent in translating talent into wins...I just don't think he's utilizing his talent as much as he could be if he ran a less conservative, smashmouth offense.

[Bigdaddydvo]

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Washington Huskies.

Hey, I can dream, can't I? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

b

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Bernie,

The reasoning behind your undying hate for the Irish finally became clear to me: You have justified apprehension that Tyrone Willingham will set your program back the 5+ years that he did for Notre Dame. If you are unclear about what I'm saying, take a look at only the handful of JRs and SRs that will start for ND next season due to Ty's atrocious recruiting. CW was fortunate to win as much as he has over the last 2 seasons with the lack of depth and talent at key postions on the team. Unfortunately, ND will not be in the mix again until maybe '08 or '09.

[jbrent33]

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West Virginia - will be sick with Slayton and White both back. The winner of their game with Louisville will be playing for the national title IMO.

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This would be a complete joke. I will bet you $500 right now if West Virginia or Lousiville play any SEC team in a bowl game, I'll take the SEC team and spot you 3 points.

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You do know as of before the bowls, the Sagarin rankings, the most accurate predictive model, shows Louisville as a minimum 4.5 pt favorite over any team in the SEC?


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Earlier in this thread I expressed my distain for the Sagrin rankings. Check back on the first page. Would you care to take my bet?

As for most accurate predictive model, would you take L'ville -4.5 over LSU, FLA, even AU or ARK? I am sick of people acting like Sagarin is the final word in college football. It is seriously flawed, PAC-10 toughest conference this year, lmao.