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  #11  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:24 AM
Ray Zee Ray Zee is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Commerce - top pair

when i make these kind of comments it isnt to tell you to fold auto or whatever. it is to adjust your thinking about what is really going on in the hand. the results do not matter but what the consequenses are do matter.

i am not there to see specifically the player or what he was doing but to comment in general, and in general doing these things dont bring home the bacon.
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:25 AM
Sunny Mehta Sunny Mehta is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Commerce - top pair

I agree
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:30 AM
flawless_victory flawless_victory is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Commerce - top pair

[ QUOTE ]
I agree

[/ QUOTE ]
i dont.

WTF brings home the bacon, pocket aces?
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:53 AM
Ray Zee Ray Zee is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Commerce - top pair

mostly yes.
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  #15  
Old 12-30-2005, 01:13 AM
riverboatking riverboatking is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Commerce - top pair

[ QUOTE ]
mostly yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

and when you say this you are refering to playing with short stacks right...cuz i know you wouldn't say this seriously about deep stacked no-limit.
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  #16  
Old 12-30-2005, 01:22 AM
BobboFitos BobboFitos is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Commerce - top pair

[ QUOTE ]
lets see. you are out of position and there is 30 bucks in the pot. then the button makes it 100 and you want to get 2000 in there with ace queen, first by calling then sticking the rest in with top pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think folding in this situation is letting a very good opportunity go by. One which probably wont come up because mr gambler will have gone broke.

...Iwould be happy to play a 4k pot vs said villain and top pair.
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  #17  
Old 12-30-2005, 04:37 PM
lapoker17 lapoker17 is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Commerce - top pair

pushing is very standard here. and by here i mean commerce.
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  #18  
Old 12-30-2005, 05:04 PM
turnipmonster turnipmonster is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Commerce - top pair

[ QUOTE ]

...Iwould be happy to play a 4k pot vs said villain and top pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

is everyone missing where coltrane says:


after my checkraise, he pauses for a few seconds and raises $500 more.....I think he would've just called me down with AJ/etc. so his reraise either means that he has AK or better, or, he puts me on a pure bluff and he's trying to re-steal......he has like $1100 left......


sounds like he doesn't particularly want to get called here.
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  #19  
Old 12-30-2005, 06:09 PM
neon neon is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Commerce - top pair

Well obviously you first need to decide if you're willing to go to the felt. That's something you know better than us, but if the Commerce 10/20 game plays anything like the comparably sized Bellagio or Borgata games (and I'm told that it's better?), I'd be pretty comfortable playing a $4k pot against the type of player you've described.

Then it just becomes a matter of whether to stick the rest in on the flop, or to just call and perhaps let villain bluff off the rest of his chips on later streets, right?

Well, if you just call his flop three-bet, there will be $1,800 in the pot, leaving villain w/ $1,100 behind, correct? I'd be inclined to believe that despite having position, villain couldn't possibly think he has much folding equity once you call the $500 reraise, and probably wouldn't stick the rest in unless he had you beat.

Also, if you just call the flop and check the turn, villain very well may check behind, giving him two shots to improve his hand. Even if your plan is to call the flop and push the turn, he still has another card to potentially make the best hand.

So I guess the best plan is to just stick it in.

You know, on the other hand, if we're correct in assuming that villain wouldn't expect much fold equity from pushing the turn if you call the flop and then check, he probably wouldn't stick the rest in on the turn unless you're beat, right?

So is it then possible that coltrane could safely call the flop and then check-fold to a turn push, saving $1,100? Dunno.

I think I still push.
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  #20  
Old 12-30-2005, 06:29 PM
fslexcduck fslexcduck is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 Commerce - top pair

for someone who just posted about high stakes at the borgata, you seem to know awfully little about live poker. (this is sarcasm... i'm going to include this from now on so people don't take offense which they usually do).

but seriously, when you say if you call and check villain will think oh there's 1800 in the pot and i have 1100 so if i bluff hero will never fold getting 2.5 to 1, you're crazy. often he'll think... 1100!! he'll never call 1100 without something really good! that's 1100 dollars! 11 hundreds of dollars! and push. i think assuming peolpe assume no fold equity is a vast misassumption, just from my experience.
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