I know most religious people don't really believe. And I can prove it.

[bunny]

I'm saved!

[soon2bepro]

haha...

Well, at least you have a better chance than most theists [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Kaj]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand - I dont think this is a sensible position to adopt, plus as luckyme pointed out in some thread or other recently, the very fact their views change through their life suggests this certainty is misplaced to say the least.

Nonetheless, for those who do entertain some doubt (whether acknowledged or not) the observed reluctance to die doesnt mean they dont believe, it means they're not 100% sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Concur completely. Your honesty about your faith is quite refreshing.

[Praxising]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm talking about all the religious belief that offer eternal bliss as an afterlife.

Why would they be afraid to die, if they expect to live an eternal and immensely blissfull life afterwards?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's afraid to die? I'm not, rather looking forward to it.

You seem to have confused a physical response to danger with being afraid to die. I don't know anyone in my Church who has ever expressed fear of death - fear of pain during the process, becoming a burden to the family, all of that. But fear of death?

Nah.

[Alex-db]

I think the bigger clue that most don't genuinly believe their religion and holy book is the freedom they evidently feel they have to update their interpretations in line with current Atheist moral norms.

If I can be so bold as to empathise with Yahweh for a moment, I'd be pretty damn pissed off if some puny humans thought they had the right to cherry-pick from my rule book as they saw fit. Straight to hell for them.

[wtfsvi]

If I was one of the people you are attacking I would say that we are afraid to die because God made us that way. He probably did that so we would stay in this life for as long as he intends us to stay.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Parting is such sweet sorrow

[/ QUOTE ]

chezspear

[kiwidonk]

One point not mentioned so far is that it's safe to assume that people, regardless of their beliefs athiest or otherwise, are afraid to die because is simply not a pleasant thing to happen. To assert that faith should overcome this perfectly rational fear every time is probably a touch too much....

Also, for the religious, there is the fear of judgment by their creator, taught in general by most religions - have I done all I could/should in this life, will I be found wanting etc......

But definitely there would also be in the minds of some of the religious an element of doubt about their death. I don't see how the existence of an element of doubt makes their faith worthless however, as surely this means that they do question the validity of their faith and are not just accepting faith of others without reasoning.

[MidGe]

Religious people very commonly confuse faith with hope. There is no benevolent god... Just look around, for heavens sake. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Of course if as an optimist you believe, or hope, that optimism is helpful... well there you are! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I see no such evidence to confirm this!

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
If anything I think you've demonstrated that they are uncertain in their belief, not that they dont believe.

[/ QUOTE ]
and even that claim would be too much.

people can be completely certain that the incy wincy spider cant hurt them and still be terrified of it. Fear can be irrational and hence untouched by rational beliefs.

chez