NL - Continuation bet with a draw

[soon2bepro]

Typical case scenario, you're playing NL hold'em (cash), and raise to 3 blinds from say the CO, one of the blinds call. Both of you have 100 blinds deep stacks. You flop a flush draw in a flop containing two broadway cards, you have two lower cards. The blind checks, you?

A lot of winning players say this is a good spot for a continuation bet, since even if that doesn't work, you increase the size of the pot, not to mention mix your play up.

I however think it's a best scenario to be able to get out of a hand easily when you're bluffing, and so I would tend to take the free card with a draw like this, so I don't get compromised in putting in a substantial portion of my stack while I'm the underdog.

What do you people think?

[James81]

The first mistake you made was, in this case as you described this is a semi-bluff not a continuation bet.

The Rules of a continuation bet:

1. You was the aggressor before the flop
2. It is checked to you (you got one or two opponents)
3. There are only low cards like 825.
4. There is no street draw possibility or flush draw possibility.
5. The opponent should have missed the flop.
6. You also should have missed the flop.
7. Then you have to bet.

What you did was a semi-bluff. You can decide change gears or play your "normal stile and take a free card like every time" or you change your play and bet it.

If he checked on the flop with air. You should bet your draw IP because at first if he has nothing you really can win the pot right here without to give him a free card. At second if you hit your flush you will win either.

You have now two ways of winning. Make a bet an he fold all his weak cards. Or if he has a mediocre hand you win also if you hit your flush.

Think about every time a continuation bet is always a move. It is always a bluff. You only take advantage of the Preflop aggression!

[alphatmw]

no a continuation bet is just a bet when you are the preflop aggressor. where did you get those phantom rules from?

[James81]

HoH 1 and 2

[soon2bepro]

Well, in Harrington 2 Dan says you should avoid making this bet, and instead check behind. That is tournament play though, so I figure to adjust it to cash games you should make the play a little more often, but not too much.

I understand the difference between a semi-bluff and a bluff, but the thing is that in NL, semi-bluffs seem to be less powerful when the pot is small, as you can get yourself pot-committed when you didn't have to, especially if they already checked to you (and especially if they're expecting you to make the continuation bet when they checked).

Open to new thoughts on the matter, awaiting your replies guys.

[James81]

Yes you are really right with this.

But I only can say it depends!

If you think his range of hands justify a semi-bluff do it. You have to vary your play (just a little bit).

I have a question to you. Do you think he will check down to showdown wiht his weak holdings ? like A9 or little pocket pairs ? What do you think when you are semi-bluffing with the flop bet and a scary card comes up ? Do you fire a second barrel if he checked on the turn too ?

You have many things to think about. It is not as easy like he checked, I was the preflop aggressor and now I bet again. It is for value shure, but I say it depends.

I have to say I play a lot of cards, maybe 30%. And if I can smell a spot where I can take a pot uncontested I try. If I got any defense, I'll give it up. Why I tell you this ? I want to say, that I am just learning the game. And building big pots with marginal hands are some of the areas I have to master.

[James81]

I have to add something.

In your example I would bet. Because, you can hit your flush and you was the preflop aggressor. You can set here the price, if you get reraised you have to give up or decide if you hit your flush you can stack him or not ? remember too you play for all his money.

A flush will not pay you off, because it is to obvious but a insight straight draw or a OESD is a good chance to pay you off. In tourneys you are not able to draw to a gutshot... this is only a hint for cashgames!

[soon2bepro]

what? you bet/fold the flush draw? that sucks....

even if that is somehow correct, all the more reason to NOT bet it

[James81]

Cool down, I said, if you decided you can stack him on your flush if you hit it!

Which sense would it make it if you risk all your money against a possible better holding if he has top pair or top two pair or a set and reraises you ?

The main reasoning for semibluffing is get the right card on later streets or win the pot now! Maybe use a scary card for your play! I mean what would you do if he check-raises you all in ? What would you do if he reraises you only for the minimum raise ? or three times or four ?

I would say it depends. Shure if the implied odds are good enough call the reraise, but when the oppoennts figured out which raise size scares you its a hard decision.

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]
Typical case scenario, you're playing NL hold'em (cash), and raise to 3 blinds from say the CO, one of the blinds call. Both of you have 100 blinds deep stacks. You flop a flush draw in a flop containing two broadway cards, you have two lower cards. The blind checks, you?

A lot of winning players say this is a good spot for a continuation bet, since even if that doesn't work, you increase the size of the pot, not to mention mix your play up.

I however think it's a best scenario to be able to get out of a hand easily when you're bluffing, and so I would tend to take the free card with a draw like this, so I don't get compromised in putting in a substantial portion of my stack while I'm the underdog.

What do you people think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the game and the foe and your image.

For example, my general philosophy at 6max and tournaments is to try and win a lot of small pots. My strategy at full ring is to win fewer but bigger pots. I am more inclined to try and take it down on the flop at 6max or in a tourney. I am more inclined to take a free card in full ring (particularly multiway - heads up is fine to bet).

Is the blind a guy who likes to check raise? Is he a loose caller from the blinds? Or is he liable to be calling with only premium hands. That can factor into the decision.

What about your image? Are you perceived as tight? LAG? How much respect will your c-bet be given with 2 high cards on the flop?

Bottom line, there are no hard and fast rules. It is situation dependent. You just have to play poker.