2nd pair get raised on the river yo

inferno · #1 10-18-2007, 07:04 AM

Full Tilt Poker $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero raises, MP calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero ...

istewart · #2 10-18-2007, 08:28 AM

Pretty standard fold IMO. Obviously repping QJ but K9/T9s make sense as well. If he has something like AQ his raise is just dumb because your range here is going to be a) kings, b) missed flush draws, or c) QJ a big % of the time.

Nick C · #3 10-18-2007, 08:41 AM

Against the psychos I was playing against tonight (0.5/1, which is a different game, I know, but still . . .), I would check-call this river.

Back when I was playing 5/10, I would have bet, but then that was a different game too.

Which I guess is my way of saying that this response of mine is pretty useless [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Mitke · #4 10-18-2007, 09:30 AM

Ahem. Another hand of yours with a "c/r flop - lead turn" line in trouble...

This time there are no reads and our hand is a bit weaker (TPNK vs 2PTK) and the raise comes on the river + there's two high cards on the flop. Now it's also 6-handed and the preflop raiser is in HJ (-> more likely that K is in his range?). Again we could have been read to be semibluffing with a FD. What's also similar is that the raise comes on a potential scare card (though only QJ).

What bugs me here is that wouldn't a strong K at least raise on the turn for protection vs. draws? Shouldn't a T9 test waters vs a potential semibluff on turn + to get a free showdown?

On the river I fold to this raise. I can't think of worse T raising here or a bluff either - ok, the FD didn't come but the 9 only completes the OESD with QJ, is smaller than 2nd pair so it's not that scary. Not likely to be bluffed upon?

c/c could be good on river if we get clubs to bluff or weaker T's to bet often enough to compensate for times when they don't or we get raised and call. Some of the weaker Ks like K6-4 might not even bet the river if checked to, certainly not raise.

I can't really tell if b/f or c/c is best here but think that both are better than b/c.

mattnxtc · #5 10-18-2007, 09:50 AM

I would think you need to slow down after he calls your c/r and calls ur turn bet.

NinaWilliams · #6 10-18-2007, 12:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would think you need to slow down after he calls your c/r and calls ur turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

We get value from QT JT and stubborn pairs 88 or lower that put us on a flush draw. Id fold this river, even vs an unknown. One of the draws got there, and people just dont bluff raise that much.

Stealthy · #7 10-18-2007, 01:12 PM

There is no way you can call this. In some ways it would be bad to call this and catch a bluff as it might convince you to call more river raises in the future than you should, and that gets expensive! Only kidding ..... sort of! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

BubbleMint · #8 10-18-2007, 07:51 PM

Calling the c/r then calling the turn, screams draw to me. One just hit and now he raises, I fold.

K9 also just hit and donks seem to have much love for K9.