87 flops top two from BB

[jrz1972]

This was from a 2/4 session on a new site for me, so I don't have any extensive reads yet (and no hand history either -- I'm going from memory here).

UTG is the only guy I have a decent read on. He's TP-A, one of the few tight players at the table. He rarely raises preflop, but he's not going to limp with cheese from EP. In an earlier hand, a couple players had limped, I raised, and he cc'ed 88 OTB. The board was monotone but gave him a set. He raised the flop, called my 3-bet, called the turn, and raised when the river card filled him up.

UTG+2 is loose and passive. No other special read. (Edit: This is my first session with UTG+2. My read at the time was "definitely loose and probably passive" but I shouldn't make it sound like I had anything conclusive on the guy other than preflop looseness).

I have 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in BB.

UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, BTN calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+2 3-bets, and it is folded to me. There are currently 6 bbs in the pot if I'm adding this correctly.

What is your plan from here and why?

[Mygtar]

Yikes!! I would fold. You have at most four outs (2 7s, and 2 8s) and the pot is offering 6:1 on the call (if it is not capped). If the LAP UTG+2 did not re-raise I would stay in or even re-raise the UTG. But with the LAP re-raising, it looks like a completed straight, or a flopped set.

Best of luck,
Mygtar

[EGO]

I don't think I can lay down top two just yet, but that's me. I have trouble laying down anything remotely good. I'm getting 6.5-1 if UTG calls, and if he caps it, then I'm going to be getting 6-1 (3 more bets to win 18). I would cap it, because of this.

On the turn there is going to be a minimum of 8BB in the pot, and 9BB if UTG stays in on the flop. After capping the flop, I lead out at any card that doesn't complete a straight. If I get raised at this point, I can figure that I'm up against a set (88 or 77 is really devestating for my hand), or a straight, and a small possibility of AA or KK, since some loose players like to limp these.

If, by chance, it gets raised and reraised on a turn blank, then I should probably fold. The possibility of an 88 or 77 being out, leaving me with one out on average (0 outs against 88, 2 outs against 77) becomes a very strong possibility, and I'm only getting 8-1 on a call and 6-1 on a cap. Because you could be drawing dead or drawing to a 22-1 shot, make your hand and still lose, a fold would probably be correct in this scenario.

That being said, if I were raised and reraised on the turn, I'd have trouble laying it down.

[James.]

let's call and see a turn card. also, calling lets you know how UTG is going to react(i.e. whether or not he caps that [censored]). if he caps, call. top two pair is good way too often in this spot and it has outs to improve against a straight. don't fold. the pots already 12sb and it's going to get bigger. i would be hard pressed not to see a showdown here if i could do it for 3 more bb.

[mrcunningham]

grunch-
I only play live, so my reads may be wrong.
flop: no reason for straight draw to be raising, much less reraising, so at least one of them have something. Lots of limping PF so sets, other two pairs, and complete straights are very possible. If you cap, it seems unlikely that you'll fold anyone, but no point in folding given you still have outs. So I would call here and call a cap, too, and reeval after the turn.

[Lucky_River]

If we think that someone has allready a straight you have 4 outs so you need 11 : 1. I would call and see what The Turn card brings. I think if you completed your f.h. with this action you should easly get it with the implied odds.

[goofball]

Folding is a horrible plan. Callig and seeing the turn is probably best, although you should be donking quite a few turns imo.