UCLA Taser Incident - Quoted Dialogue From Video - Page 15

Hopey · #**141** 11-22-2006, 10:58 AM

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i would like to know what technique you would use. I'm only 175 pounds, and i know i could make it very difficult for 4 people to carry me out.

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How would you make it difficult? Would you thrash around, kicking and biting? If so, it's at this point where it would be permissible to tase you to prevent injury to the officers.

However, the officers in question didn't even bother trying to carry the kid. They just went right for their tasers. It was both lazy and sadistic all at once.

Freerollin` · #**142** 11-22-2006, 11:00 AM

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I find it foolish to try to argue with you on this point because both of us are not police officers, nor do we have experience in this field.

[/ QUOTE ] If you find that foolish, then the foolish one would be you, since the default mode around 2+2 is that rarely, rather than usually, the other party is a cop.
...
Mickey Brausch

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There's a problem with this line of reasoning. The fact that two people aren't cops doesn't render them incapable of discussing police conduct.

Anyway, I've tried to avoid this discussion, but there are some seriously unnerving thoughts in this and other threads on this incident. So here are some thoughts on the it from someone who spent ten years as a police officer/prosecutor:

First, the student is a total douchebag.

Second, despite the first comment, there is NO excuse for a group of FOUR TO SIX police officers to REPEATEDLY use a taser on ONE guy who has shown no signs of serious aggression or threats of aggression. Two officers could have easily handcuffed him and removed him from the premises. I'm confident that I could have done it myself without injuring him simply by using a pressure point to get him off the ground.

Third, these officers threatened non-aggressive bystanders with a tasering. This is nothing short of an unwarranted police aggression.

Fourth, the police - and the police ALONE - are responsible for escalating this situation. The kid wants to yell and scream about being forced from the library. SO [censored] ING WHAT? Let him make himself look like an idiot. The worst thing the officers could have done was make an idiot into a cause celebre - and they did it.

Finally, I've been tased on the stun setting. It didn't affect me that much - it hurt, but it didn't take me off my feet. On the other hand, when it was used on another guy in my department - who was 210 lbs. of solid muscle and trained in MMA fighting - he was knocked off his feet and pissed himself. The thing with tasers is that they affect different people differently. A lot depends on how it makes contact with the person being hit with it. So people who think that the "drive setting" doesn't hurt are kidding themselves and are probably the same kind of people that like to sit behind the security of a computer and say, "10K FIGHT YO."

Personally, I think that tasers are dangerous and should be abandoned. The UCLA department regulations on how and when to use it is pretty similar to other that I've seen, and as far as I'm concerned, are too liberal with regard to when they can be used.

So those are my thoughts on the situation. I'm fairly confident that I'll get some follow up questions on what I've said, but since I'm really busy today at work, I won't have a chance to answer many. Don't be offended if I don't get to yours.

Hopey · #**143** 11-22-2006, 11:00 AM

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At least mention that he was cop of the year in 2001.

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I'm now afraid to ask what the criteria for that award would be.

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I guess he managed to get through that entire year without shooting a mentally ill homeless person.

Hopey · #**144** 11-22-2006, 11:07 AM

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First, the student is a total douchebag.

Second, despite the first comment, there is NO excuse for a group of FOUR TO SIX police officers to REPEATEDLY use a taser on ONE guy who has shown no signs of serious aggression or threats of aggression.

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It's almost childish how some posters can't separate the first point (the kid being a douchebag) from the second point (the kid getting tased due to his douchebag behaviour). Just because someone is acting like a douchebag does not give you the right to inflict violence upon him. You may *want* to hurt him physically for his actions, but being able to resist these impulses is what makes you a mature adult, and not a child.

RR · #**145** 11-22-2006, 11:44 AM

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I think most of you believe they should have just let the guy go and your objections to the UCPD actions are not really about tasing but the fact that the student was being held acountable for his actions.

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Who was holding him accountable?

Meech · #**146** 11-22-2006, 11:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I've tried to avoid this discussion, but there are some seriously unnerving thoughts in this and other threads on this incident. So here are some thoughts on the it from someone who spent ten years as a police officer/prosecutor:

First, the student is a total douchebag.

Second, despite the first comment, there is NO excuse for a group of FOUR TO SIX police officers to REPEATEDLY use a taser on ONE guy who has shown no signs of serious aggression or threats of aggression. Two officers could have easily handcuffed him and removed him from the premises. I'm confident that I could have done it myself without injuring him simply by using a pressure point to get him off the ground.

Third, these officers threatened non-aggressive bystanders with a tasering. This is nothing short of an unwarranted police aggression.

Fourth, the police - and the police ALONE - are responsible for escalating this situation. The kid wants to yell and scream about being forced from the library. SO [censored] ING WHAT? Let him make himself look like an idiot. The worst thing the officers could have done was make an idiot into a cause celebre - and they did it.

Finally, I've been tased on the stun setting. It didn't affect me that much - it hurt, but it didn't take me off my feet. On the other hand, when it was used on another guy in my department - who was 210 lbs. of solid muscle and trained in MMA fighting - he was knocked off his feet and pissed himself. The thing with tasers is that they affect different people differently. A lot depends on how it makes contact with the person being hit with it. So people who think that the "drive setting" doesn't hurt are kidding themselves and are probably the same kind of people that like to sit behind the security of a computer and say, "10K FIGHT YO."

Personally, I think that tasers are dangerous and should be abandoned. The UCLA department regulations on how and when to use it is pretty similar to other that I've seen, and as far as I'm concerned, are too liberal with regard to when they can be used.

So those are my thoughts on the situation. I'm fairly confident that I'll get some follow up questions on what I've said, but since I'm really busy today at work, I won't have a chance to answer many. Don't be offended if I don't get to yours.

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Great post. There is hope.

Dr. Strangelove · #**147** 11-22-2006, 11:50 AM

This is because of grounding right? I used to test our electric fences by grabbing them. A lot of people thought my pain tolerance was really high, but I just had excellent shoes. If I grabbed a fence while barefoot after it had rained I would get the [censored] shocked out of me.

grandgnu · #**148** 11-22-2006, 12:33 PM

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Sorry. What I meant to say was "ohhh man I'm glad those cops [censored] that kid up! He was a totally lame guy and obviously a big pussy, lolz police excess lolz wtf?!!? lollololol wtf they told him to leave!? rofl lollercoasterz wtf he fricken broke the law!!!! lolz you guys just want to criminals. first, he only has 9 friends on Facebook!!!! what a fricken geek. also, remember police = good guys, criminals = bad guys. end of story. nh ACLUaments".

Better?

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WTFaments?! My work is done here. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Freerollin` · #**149** 11-22-2006, 01:05 PM

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This is because of grounding right? I used to test our electric fences by grabbing them. A lot of people thought my pain tolerance was really high, but I just had excellent shoes. If I grabbed a fence while barefoot after it had rained I would get the [censored] shocked out of me.

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I don't know about the grounding. While I can't be sure, I would think that both the other officer and I were wearing the same (or at least similar) shoes/boots, so the grounding effect would have been the same.

srjunkacct · #**150** 11-22-2006, 02:00 PM

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I'm confident that I could have done it myself without injuring him simply by using a pressure point to get him off the ground.

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Presumably this is supposed to be uncomfortable enough to convince him to get up, but not as painful as a drive-stun Tasering, right? (I am not trained in the martial arts, nor have I ever been Tasered before, so please excuse the pedantry.)