Joe Navarro book, Nov 7th

[waynerooney]

I just ordered my copy of Joe Navarro's book on poker tells, entitled Phil Hellmuth presents "Read Em and Reap", by Joe Navarro FBI ret. with Marvin Karlins. I've heard great things about Joe and am anxious to read the book. I think I'm also going to attend his one day seminar in Vegas on Nov 19th

[Aceshigh7]

I'm very much looking forward to this book as well.

[ECDub]

On Annie Duke's website, she has an article "Lessons from the FBI." She mentions how great Joe Navarro is and some of the things she learned from him. It will give you a little taste of what will be in the book if you haven't already heard the great things about this guy.

He has written a lot of articles and wrote a couple of books covering advanced interrogation techniques, so he definitely knows his stuff. I am really looking forward to reading it.

[*TT*]

Ive already read it, I was given an advanced copy in July from the publisher. If you have a basic understanding of psychology, logic, and the standard commonly known tells then the book isn't worth reading. What is interesting is his background analysis of why the tell exists. Unfortunately he puts way to much stock in tells as a source of profit, a common mistake that will cost many readers lots of money - therefore I hope the book sells very well.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[mkarlins]

As an author on Phil and Joe's book I must take exception to "TT's" remarks. When he says "If you have a basic understanding of psychology, logic, and the standard commonly known tells then the book isn't worth reading..." then I guess T.J. Cloutier, John Bonetti, Antonio Esfandiari and other pros--who took pages of notes when Navarro made his presentation (and praised his work) must not have known much of these topics! Mr. "TT", I don't know if you have ten WSOP braclets, but I suspect when Phil Hellmuth and Annie Duke publically acclaim the new insights Joe Navarro brings to the game then either you are VERY talented or are badly underestimating the value of what Joe has to say in Read 'em and Reap. I can assure you, both from personal experience (as a psychologist and tournament participant) and discussions with other players who have used Joe's insights: Navarro's revelations on tells will bring you new awareness of how to play more effective, winning poker.

mkarlins

[Mason Malmuth]

If my memory is accurate, in his book Psyching Out Las Vegas Karlins recommended that when you come to Las Vegas to bring a bunch of mailing envelopes with your address on them and everytime you got something like $20 ahead to mail $10 of it back home.

[ QUOTE ]
then I guess T.J. Cloutier, John Bonetti, Antonio Esfandiari and other pros--who took pages of notes when Navarro made his presentation (and praised his work) must not have known much of these topics! Mr. "TT", I don't know if you have ten WSOP braclets, but I suspect when Phil Hellmuth and Annie Duke publically acclaim the new insights Joe Navarro brings to the game then either you are VERY talented or are badly underestimating the value of what Joe has to say in Read 'em and Reap.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's also a third option. I won't state what it is, but are you familiar with the books written by the likes of Cloutier, Esfandiari, and Hellmuth?

MM

[mkarlins]

Dear Mason,

Your memory DOES serve you well; however, the $10 and $20 figures must be adjusted for inflation (the book was written in 1980!)and was mainly aimed at players involved in negative expectation games (which, of course, poker is not). Also, my congratulations for your successful publishing ventures and this website. Hope to see you at a final table soon!

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
As an author on Phil and Joe's book I must take exception to "TT's" remarks. When he says "If you have a basic understanding of psychology, logic, and the standard commonly known tells then the book isn't worth reading..." then I guess T.J. Cloutier, John Bonetti, Antonio Esfandiari and other pros--who took pages of notes when Navarro made his presentation (and praised his work) must not have known much of these topics! Mr. "TT", I don't know if you have ten WSOP braclets, but I suspect when Phil Hellmuth and Annie Duke publically acclaim the new insights Joe Navarro brings to the game then either you are VERY talented or are badly underestimating the value of what Joe has to say in Read 'em and Reap. I can assure you, both from personal experience (as a psychologist and tournament participant) and discussions with other players who have used Joe's insights: Navarro's revelations on tells will bring you new awareness of how to play more effective, winning poker.

mkarlins

[/ QUOTE ]

Not an auspicious start for one who would like to plug a book here.

Your first post is riddled with logical and tactical errors.

The reference to WSOP bracelets is a logical error of appeal to authority. Owning one or more bracelets does not necessarily qualify someone to evaluate work in another field, or to review a book on the subject. Not having a bracelet does not disqualify anyone from doing so either.

The choice of authorities you cite also shows an ignorance of your audience. At the risk of speaking for others, the people you mention are respected for their poker ability, but are generally held in low esteem for their writing, teaching, and analytical abilities.

It is also ill-advised to come onto a forum and dismiss a known and respected member as being unqualified to express an opinion. If you can point out errors, that is one thing. If it's your opinion against his, you need to establish some credibility before anyone will take you seriously as anything other than another author flogging his book.

[Mason Malmuth]

You also need to understand that people like the poster *TT* is a very knowledgeable poker player. So when he says that the book is weak, it doesn't mean that it is, but you should take his comments seriously and try to figure out why he says what he does.

Also, when you try to make arguments such as:

[ QUOTE ]
then I guess T.J. Cloutier, John Bonetti, Antonio Esfandiari and other pros--who took pages of notes when Navarro made his presentation (and praised his work) must not have known much of these topics

[/ QUOTE ]
or

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if you have ten WSOP braclets

[/ QUOTE ]

you need to realize that this has nothing to do with what is written on the pages of the book in question.

MM

[Shaman]

*TT*:

Are there tells in Navarro's book that are NOT discussed in Mike Caro's book? If there are none then it is obviously not worth a read. If there are, would you please share three with us? Thanks.