What?

[hennnerz]

[ QUOTE ]
I folded the flop, I just fabricated the turn as an example of how bad it is to just call on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling flop is neither bad nor horrible.

[clowntable]

I think his bet is somethin he conciders to be stron and wants to protect vs a draw.
In the mind of the donk, cbet is not automatic so he's thinking along the lines of "ZOMG I have TP or ZOMG I have 2P but I can't let him check behind and draw out"

The smaller donk bet is usually a weakish middle pair type of hand or someone pissed at etting cbet out of every pot on the flop but PSB not sure.
What site was it on/is there a bet pot button?

[Hail Eris]

I agree that donks don't always expect a cbet on a lot of boards and might take this line when they obviously shouldn't, but this is a pretty raggedy A high flop. If CO has a strong hand here, in my experience he's getting pretty excited about us hitting TPGK and trapping our money.

[sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
I folded the flop, I just fabricated the turn as an example of how bad it is to just call on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

lol i dissagree


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call flop
shove turn
seems easy?

[/ QUOTE ]

So youre calling the flop to make sure the FD doesnt hit?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im calling flop because If I raise and get it all on the flop in Ill rarely be a big favorite and either a dog or a small favortie

if i get it in on turn ill be a much bigger favorite vs his range);

[rjacobs003]

This is a pretty weird position to be in. I've trolled through my database to find something similar but I couldn't pick anything which quite matches this scenario on the flop. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, this is generally the classic check-raise position if you're beat. Overcard on the flop and then the donk bets tend to come out. Ok my database is admittedly quite small but my question to those with large samples, is (a) is this a common situation i.e Top top pair good kicker gets donked into? and (b) if not, a fold here should be fine as it could not possibly be a significant leak (if a leak at all). SO not unhappy with a fold here given that it seems (to me anyway) to be an uncommon combination of events (pot-size donk bet on an ace-high flop with no reads). I like the fold here - I don't do it often enough but I like it.

[traz]

This is a very tough spot. Anything we do sucks. That said, I fold. If the player behind me was a normal player, this would be an EASY fold, but because he's a loose donk it makes it a little tougher to let it go.

I think raising is likely to get us stacked on the flop, and calling is likely to see another bet on the turn.

Also in general, donkbets in multiway flops are scary as hell

[ryang]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's what my thought process would probably look like
1) Look at pot/stack ratio and our hand
Ratio is < 5:1, pretty much excellent for a TP2K kind of hand -> We can felt it

2) Look at villains ranges and board texture
Pretty drawy board with two possible gutshots and a FD out there. The As makes the FD unlikely to be to the nuts (I don't think it matters at these levels since flush = nuts)

We don't really know much about the ranges of villains. 64/3 can have close to any two depending on how liberal he calls when his limp was raised (some people never fold once they have invested money etc), note that CO got good odds to call once MP had called so his range should be a little wider
No VPIP/PFR% for the other guy and we don't know if they raise any PP or limp the small ones.
I'm willing to put both of them on
a) Small PPs say 22-66/77
b) Suited connectors of sorts
c) Ax and Axs hands where x < T/J (as they usually should have raised, especially CO)
b) Any two suited cards for some villains
CO is less likely to have Ax or a PP here if he is a good player since he'd probably raise that hoping to pick up blinds+limpers money
Small PPs are least likely for both since most people tend to raise them

Options:
1) Raise the donkbet (minraise + push on turn if called) - my usual line since donkbet = weakish middle pair kind of hands a lot of times (assuming non thinking player). However if I have no other read a pot sized donkbet into a 3 way pot is highly unusual.
The usual weakish ones are between 1/2 and 2/3 the pot

2) Call - I'd do this only to bet if a spade comes on the turn. Big donk bet on 2 flush boards seems to mean "ZOMG I have a hand and don't want to get drawn out on". If you have a read that villain is afraid of flushes hitting and weakish + able to lay a hand down you can go this route.
If the third player calls as well I probably just check/give up on the turn

What beats us:
55 (99 is unlikely as he would have raised PF, 95 is unlikely ubless suited), A5, A9 (AK is unlikely since he would have raised)
What we want villain to have:
A2, A3, A4, A6, A7, A8, AT, AJ
Also possible:
3s2s, 4s3s, 7s6s, 8s7s, 9sXs

note: With a pot to stack ratio of < 5:1 I really don't mind felting this. Once we call we may or may not be commited anyways

[/ QUOTE ]

tl;dr

[ryang]

are we playing AK the same way?

[shyturtle27]

Calling a pot size donk with nooooo redraws is pretty bad, but I could be wrong. We're getting an SPR of 5 versus villian so that's about what we want in order to commit with TPTK even against a uNL unknown, but we have TP2K so I'd fold and push sometimes provided I have the slightest bit of info on how villian plays. I push AK here however. Calling makes the rest of the hand so difficult.

[hennnerz]

Oh god. I did't even read the hand properly. If it was just you and CO, no MP, then call, re-evaluate turn.

As played I fold here.