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#1
09-02-2007, 06:15 PM
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($24) Two little boys meet in a crowd. Does size matters?
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament Blinds: t15/t30 9 players Converter Stack sizes: UTG: t1500 UTG+1: t1500 MP1: t1500 MP2: t2265 MP3: t915 CO: t1485 Button: t1455 Hero: t1470 BB: t1410 Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t30 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t45)</font>, 2 folds, MP3 calls t30 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t75)</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls t15 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t105)</font>, BB checks. Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t120, 4 players) Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 bets t120</font>, Hero calls t120 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t240)</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls t120 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t360)</font>. Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t480, 3 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets t480</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises all-in t765</font>, Hero folds. No reads. Meh, I don't like my line here but I'm not sure what is the right one... Lead the flop? Fold to the bet on the flop? Lead the turn? 
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#2
09-02-2007, 06:16 PM
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Re: ($24) Two little boys meet in a crowd. Does size matters?
i probably lead flop. fold turn is obv good here.
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#3
09-02-2007, 06:17 PM
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Re: ($24) Two little boys meet in a crowd. Does size matters?
I'd check-fold to a pot bet.
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#4
09-02-2007, 06:18 PM
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Re: ($24) Two little boys meet in a crowd. Does size matters?
What's your action on the turn if got called? Check/fold?
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#5
09-02-2007, 08:55 PM
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Re: ($24) Two little boys meet in a crowd. Does size matters?
[ QUOTE ]
i probably lead flop. fold turn is obv good here. [/ QUOTE ] I hate that line. You are going to lose money to better jacks and you are also going to lose it to draws, because the former will bet and the latter will semibluff you on the turn when you check. The best you can hope for is that they check behind. You'll probably lose money to overcards too, because some players will call your flop bet and then when you show weakness on the turn, read you for the draw and bet . If your bet is simply intended to fold out the draws and take the pot right there, you don't need top pair for the job. You could make the same play with 32o. I check, call a small bet on the flop and then see what happens on the turn.
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#6
09-02-2007, 10:36 PM
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Re: ($24) Two little boys meet in a crowd. Does size matters?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i probably lead flop. fold turn is obv good here. [/ QUOTE ] I hate that line. You are going to lose money to better jacks and you are also going to lose it to draws, because the former will bet and the latter will semibluff you on the turn when you check. The best you can hope for is that they check behind. You'll probably lose money to overcards too, because some players will call your flop bet and then when you show weakness on the turn, read you for the draw and bet . If your bet is simply intended to fold out the draws and take the pot right there, you don't need top pair for the job. You could make the same play with 32o. I check, call a small bet on the flop and then see what happens on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] leading the turn with a hand like hero's helps define where we're at pretty quickly based on whatever action happens behind us. putting in any more chips after getting called on the flop would have to be determined based on reads, number of players in the pot, etc. the fold on the turn based on how OP played the hand is fine - i'm not putting in extra money to a bet and a raise with top pair/bad kicker with a gutshot, so shutting down isn't bad at all. my first comment is how i would have played the flop, which i think could go either way but i prefer to lead out, and the second was based on how OP played the hand and what i would have done in his situation. i think you misunderstood my first post. even still, i'm not continuing with a hand like this after the flop. because this is a limped pot there's too many hands out there that can beat us, and i'm not trying to play a huge pot oop with a weak hand. being able to get away from spots like this is what helps us become winners because we realize there's much more profitable spots ahead of us.
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#7
09-02-2007, 10:57 PM
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Re: ($24) Two little boys meet in a crowd. Does size matters?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i probably lead flop. fold turn is obv good here. [/ QUOTE ] I hate that line. You are going to lose money to better jacks and you are also going to lose it to draws, because the former will bet and the latter will semibluff you on the turn when you check. The best you can hope for is that they check behind. You'll probably lose money to overcards too, because some players will call your flop bet and then when you show weakness on the turn, read you for the draw and bet . If your bet is simply intended to fold out the draws and take the pot right there, you don't need top pair for the job. You could make the same play with 32o. I check, call a small bet on the flop and then see what happens on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] leading the turn with a hand like hero's helps define where we're at pretty quickly based on whatever action happens behind us. [/ QUOTE ] No, I don't think it does on this flop. You get called by draws and by slightly better jacks, and you have no way of knowing which called you. Say the turn completely bricks. Are you ahead? You have no idea. [ QUOTE ] putting in any more chips after getting called on the flop would have to be determined based on reads, number of players in the pot, etc. [/ QUOTE ] Unless my read is "this guy will ALWAYS raise with top pair or better", I'm not sure that a read can help me against a single caller. I simply can't know what he called with. I don't think we can put more money in with more than one caller. [ QUOTE ] the fold on the turn based on how OP played the hand is fine - i'm not putting in extra money to a bet and a raise with top pair/bad kicker with a gutshot, so shutting down isn't bad at all. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, me either. [ QUOTE ] my first comment is how i would have played the flop, which i think could go either way but i prefer to lead out, and the second was based on how OP played the hand and what i would have done in his situation. i think you misunderstood my first post. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, okay. But I'm thinking you will take the line the other guy suggested and checkfold the turn, won't you? From what you say below, I find it hard to believe you'll make the pot any bigger. [ QUOTE ] even still, i'm not continuing with a hand like this after the flop. because this is a limped pot there's too many hands out there that can beat us, and i'm not trying to play a huge pot oop with a weak hand. [/ QUOTE ] But you'll put a bet in with it? [ QUOTE ] being able to get away from spots like this is what helps us become winners because we realize there's much more profitable spots ahead of us. [/ QUOTE ] We are not discussing whether you can get away from top pair. We are discussing whether you should bet it on this flop. To be honest, I doubt putting a bet in on the flop and then giving up on the turn will make much difference to your bottom line [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#8
09-02-2007, 11:59 PM
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Re: ($24) Two little boys meet in a crowd. Does size matters?
I think leading the flop is a little dangerous - if you get called you have no idea where you are, or which of your outs are any good.
If I'm leading out it's with the intention of trying to take it down right now, and keeping it very cheap after that if called. I think c/c on the flop is fine. Clear fold on the turn.
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