***Official Bicker about Manning vs. Brady Thread***

[TMTTR]

How much do we discount Brady's rating for his coaches illegally recording the opposition's defense? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

How much do we discount for the other as-of-yet-undiscovered ways that the Pats' coaches have been cheating since Belichick took over? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]


Warning: This post is intended to rile up Patriot fans and should not be used to inspire serious debate.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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How much do we discount Brady's rating for his coaches illegally recording the opposition's defense?

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the videotaping clearly HURT Brady, ldo, just look at the #'s for this year vs last

[capone0]

So how will the rest of the teams in the NFL react. Let's say the Pats keep Moss. Will the rest of the teams try to grab up FAs from the Pats? Will the CBs have to get larger to overcome Moss? There will be a reaction to what the Pats have done by the NFL or the other teams. The 80s dynasties were fixed through FA. Now the Pats have gotten around it by getting good players to pay for less (Both Thomas and Moss are paid less than Market value, Thomas slightly less (9ers offered a bigger deal) and Moss much less (he took a paycut).

The Pats are fun, but they won't be fun for the NFL in the long run to lessen the parity that seemed to exist for the last 10 years.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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Will the rest of the teams try to grab up FAs from the Pats?

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there aren't many. Asante & Moss are the 2 huge ones. Bruschi and Seau iirc, but I can't see them going anywhere but NE at this point.

it's very doubtful Stallworth will be back, he's due for like a $7m roster bonus. I think the Pats hope Chad Jackson (high pick from last year, just got activated) will be able to fill in his role.

the big question is if Moss will takes a discount to stay in NE, where he is winning and putting up huge #'s.

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Will the CBs have to get larger to overcome Moss?

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you're talking about mb the best WR ever (at his peak). he's an extreme rarity, I'm not sure if that can/should cause a league wide adjustment.

the dynasty is still a precarious thing - a few bad FA signings and bad drafts will hurt.

though, the cap has risen enough that teams right now have a bit more room for error . this will change in a couple years though, as old contracts expire

[capone0]

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Will the rest of the teams try to grab up FAs from the Pats?

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there aren't many. Asante & Moss are the 2 huge ones. Bruschi and Seau iirc, but I can't see them going anywhere but NE at this point.

it's very doubtful Stallworth will be back, he's due for like a $7m roster bonus. I think the Pats hope Chad Jackson (high pick from last year, just got activated) will be able to fill in his role.

the big question is if Moss will takes a discount to stay in NE, where he is winning and putting up huge #'s.

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Will the CBs have to get larger to overcome Moss?

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you're talking about mb the best WR ever (at his peak). he's an extreme rarity, I'm not sure if that can/should cause a league wide adjustment.

the dynasty is still a precarious thing - a few bad FA signings and bad drafts will hurt.

though, the cap has risen enough that teams right now have a bit more room for error . this will change in a couple years though, as old contracts expire

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I also mean, yeah, this year they should be fine e/c those 2. But in the long run teams are going to go after their o-line and there marginally good guys. These things eventually killed other dynasties. Right now, the only guys look like the Pats would die without are Brady in all likelyhood. But guys on their D-line will eventually want more money and they aren't all that replacable especially Seymour (I know he has a long term deal), Wilfork, etc.

My point is, yes the Pats are killing now not only b/c they have better personnel, management, coaching, etc. Eventually what they are doing will be known by the league (not saying it's illegal) and they will react to bring the train eventually down.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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Eventually what they are doing will be known by the league (not saying it's illegal) and they will react to bring the train eventually down.

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I think a large part of their success has been "find one of the top 5 QB's ever" and "hire maybe the best HC ever". I don't think that is very repeatable [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

of course you're right, they have also done well in the draft and in the FA market. but the league saw what this team was doing as far back as 2003 and 2004, and has been doing the things you talked about since then (signing our free agents, etc). even in 2005 we were 1 controversial game away from hosting the AFC championship game, and last year we did play in the championship game. ironically we won in 2001 when the team was not really elite, but that means the team has been in the public eye since 2001 and elite from 2003-2007, and not much has really changed, and in fact this team is the easily the best of the bunch

ironically, the more teams pay big money for our replaceable parts (ie Damien Woody with the Lions, Daniel Graham with the Broncos, Deion Branch, the list goes on and on) the more it hurts them and helps us. their cap space gets smaller, ours gets bigger.

the Pats have basically refused to pay for what a guy has ALREADY done, their draft record has been pretty damn good, and they have all time greats at the 2 most important positions (HC and QB). I'm not sure what their doing is very repeatable, except by the Colts or until the next great QB emerges.

eventually the dynasty will end of course, but I think it will be when Brady gets old & BB retires & we start making bad personnel mistakes. ie 2-4 more years.

another random point which I'm sure you don't want to think about: the trade with the 49ers is going to give us a huge boost. that pick is likely to be around #3, which they will be able trade into 2 20ish picks and maybe more. there is an outside chance that pick turns into 3 #1's

[splashpot]

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the big question is if Moss will takes a discount to stay in NE, where he is winning and putting up huge #'s.


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Maybe it's just me being optimistic, but did anyone see his post game interview? He looked pretty darn happy. "I'm in a dream. It's too good to be true. I'm with the Patriots."

[Richard Tanner]

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the big question is if Moss will takes a discount to stay in NE, where he is winning and putting up huge #'s.


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Maybe it's just me being optimistic, but did anyone see his post game interview? He looked pretty darn happy. "I'm in a dream. It's too good to be true. I'm with the Patriots."

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Yep, I can't see him leaving. He's getting older and he's made his money (ironically by playing awful/refusing to play) so now I'd guess it's time for him to take a cut and stay with NE.

Of course to paraphrase the Native American proverb "When you picked me up you knew I was Randy Moss".

Cody